thoughts about a different RED entry level camera..

[Mohammed El Sharqawy]

Hello all,

I'm putting this post in the off topic section, so not to bother anyone by my humble thoughts..

I know that you always listen to your customers, that's what encouraged me to write this..
I know this have discussed here in the forum many times, but with this update it maybe more liable to discuss again..
I'm totally not against the update of implementing the HDRx feature in the scarlet line.. its definetly right.. but simply it

makes it a different camera for a different budget.. I'm not saying it is expensive.. nope.. its way too cheap for what you

get out of it..

BUT,
with all the knowlage and experience you already have learned now..

is it possible to make a new camera to the RED line of cameras that has a basic raw shooting functionality for the people in

the market that are wasting a lot of money on cameras like dslrs and prosumer level camcorders?

a small simple camera, that would be the younger sister for RED ONE..
it doesn't have to be so small, it doesn't have to have HDRx, no modularity, no fast fps, no touch tracking focus..
just a camera that can grab the 2/3" sensor's (you already have) data at 1-30 fps in the lowest redcode format rate..
and simple manual exposure controls, no hyper photographer stills functionality nothing..
simple cheaper electronics, interchangable lenses (any mount and 3rd parties will do the rest).. an lcd and a rec button..

by your way you're telling us you now have got more knowlage doing this incredibly impossible program, I think you might be

able to release such a simple camera in three months..

I think other companies are extreme in their style of releasing their cameras, and this is not RED's philosophy, but, RED's

philosophy is also extreme about doing things extremely good and extremely efficient at the cost of time and putting

everything a subject to change..

I have a big hope in RED since 2007.. I was futuristic.. trying to convince producers to buy RED ONE before it filled the

market in my country by now being the best and one of the most expensive cameras to rent..


what do you think redusers?


PS: I've sold my T1i to buy a T2i that was released 3 months after I bought my T1i.. thinking about the T2i now.. I'm wondering should I get a 7D, 60D, or stick to T2i that is going to be absolete after few months.. anyway all these cameras sucks for the basic motion shooting functionality, I'm really pissed being at the end of 2010 and no simple raw motion camera on the market for affordable price..the DSMC system is promising and will solve everything, but, poor film makers like me are very hungry for such a simple tool to make a better living..

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Actually, I'm still hoping we'll someday see that "professional pocket camera" that Scarlet was originally announced as. I'm thinking something small -- like the size of good point and shoot. Something that actually fits in a pocket, no real frills, no interchangeable lenses, but it shoots quality RAW stills and motion.

 

[Mohammed El Sharqawy]

Actually, I'm still hoping we'll someday see that "professional pocket camera" that Scarlet was originally announced as. I'm thinking something small -- like the size of good point and shoot. Something that actually fits in a pocket, no real frills, no interchangeable lenses, but it shoots quality RAW stills and motion.

smaller electronics will make it more expensive.. size doesn't matter..
I'm ok if it is half of the size of RED ONE..

 

[Elsie N]

I could be wrong but it looks like with the move to include HDRx™ in Scarlet that RED is protecting it's brand identification. Going forward, it appears that they are primarily interested in being identified as having the highest quality image capability at the most affordable price. I'm sure they could make money releasing a pocket camera or a dumbed down R-1, but I'm just thinking they are more interested in perception than how much money they can pull in. If I'm right, that is kinda unique.

 

[J Davis]

I hope they do Mohammed, I'm just about priced out with this latest spec.
With the fixed being the cheapest way to shoot redcode, its not just $5750 for the camera, its all the other costs that go along to make it work. Rocket card, lcd, etc

Increasingly any scarlet is becoming beyond the reach of indi film makers such as myself and remaining only in the realm of the DP's and cameramen

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Pocket professional camera.

2/3" sensor
5:1 Redcode
1-60 fps
24 bit audio
4" AMOLED flip touchscreen
Internal ND(s)
Assignable dials
Wireless control
HDSDI, HDMI, XLR, TRS
REC button.

Done.

 

[Mohammed El Sharqawy]

Pocket professional camera.

2/3" sensor
5:1 Redcode
1-60 fps
24 bit audio
4" AMOLED flip touchscreen
Internal ND(s)
Assignable dials
Wireless control
HDSDI, HDMI, XLR, TRS
REC button.

Done.

even less would do the job..
this should be an indie tool..

no need for wireless control this will charge you extra $500
no need for HDSI, HDMI is sufficient
no need for internal ND, a Fader ND is cool..

just a simple redcode shooting camera..

 

[Luis de la Cerda]

I think many don't realize that at a certain point, further limiting specs does little to curb manufacturing costs. What makes DSLR´s so cheap isn´t the crappy video image as much as the economies of scale. Low(er) volume items cost more to produce even if you put them together with gaffer tape, yet you can get an iphone 4 with a shitload of features well under a thousand dollars. I might be mistaken though

 

[Mohammed El Sharqawy]

I think many don't realize that at a certain point, further limiting specs does little to curb manufacturing costs. What makes DSLR´s so cheap isn´t the crappy video image as much as the economies of scale. Low(er) volume items cost more to produce even if you put them together with gaffer tape, yet you can get an iphone 4 with a shitload of features well under a thousand dollars. I might be mistaken though

simple tools are easier to mass produce than complicated ones.. canon and nikon dslrs are cheap and their hassy sisters are very expensive..

 

[Vince Doran]

I would like 250 fps @3k to shoot surfing/water sports in a housing, I don't need/want any fancy stuff and can you make it as small as possible please Jim?

 

[Mohammed El Sharqawy]

I would like 250 fps @3k to shoot surfing/water sports in a housing, I don't need/want any fancy stuff and can you make it as small as possible please Jim?

if it was 60 or 30 fps, will you buy it?

 

[Andy Jarosz]

I'd by it if it was 24 max!

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I hope they do Mohammed, I'm just about priced out with this latest spec.
With the fixed being the cheapest way to shoot redcode, its not just $5750 for the camera, its all the other costs that go along to make it work. Rocket card, lcd, etc

Increasingly any scarlet is becoming beyond the reach of indi film makers such as myself and remaining only in the realm of the DP's and cameramen

Hmmm... Even with the price bump, it's still cheaper than what indie filmmakers paid for their HVX200's when that system was released.

I realize that every budget has its breaking point, but your argument above doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The $5750 for fixed Scarlet is the package price (adjusted for the $1K HDRx addition). That includes a touch LCD, side CF module, travel charger...

You don't need a RED Rocket to make it work. Both Adobe Premiere and Sony Vegas (and Avid, even FCP to some extent) can work with REDCODE in real-time, even on a laptop with a decently fast external drive or SSD connected. I still expect a lot to change by the time Scarlet is finally released, including the power of available processors and the pricing of those processors as well as the price and implementation of the Rocket cards.

It seems as if you have been assembling a budget and tracking the equipment you intend to buy. That's great, but it's always a moving target. If you do have the Rocket figured into that budget, that would be one of the first things you should cross off. Lots of other hardware/accessories you should buy *BEFORE* investing in a Rocket. Especially since many current systems chew through 3K REDCODE in real-time without breaking a sweat. After all, 3K is about half the number of pixels as 4K.

 

[J Davis]

The latest word from Peter here (link) has put my mind more at ease about the post flow pipeline because you are dead right - I can't afford a rocket card. But I can afford to cut then pay a post house to debayer.

Hmmm... Even with the price bump, it's still cheaper than what indie filmmakers paid for their HVX200's when that system was released.

yes and at that time I could not afford to be part of that crowd. The markets have changed. I'm a supporter of RED's innovations and I don't want to see long gop dslr's win.
I want RED to win but they won't with their new pricing that is aimed above that niche. +$1000 is a 20% hike. Imagine if epic had a sudden 20% hike - it would throw your budgets too.

 

[Felix K.]

I'd be fine with the camera like it was announced last November for 5000$ max.

 

[Elsie N]

...that niche. +$1000 is a 20% hike. Imagine if epic had a sudden 20% hike - it would throw your budgets too.

Epic has had a price hike, in a way. The new HDRx means that to use it we will have to buy an SSD module and SSD media. This is an added expense I hadn't counted on but that doesn't mean I want to throw away all the new possibilities and revert to default. It's costing RED a LOT more time and money to invent these things than it will require for me to figure out a way to pay for them. The way I will do that is to jettison some more expenses from my personal life, although I am getting pretty close to bare boned as it is. Some call me committed while others say I should be.

If you really, really want it... you'll find a way.

 

[J Davis]

If you really, really want it... you'll find a way.

I know ... I'm still posting aren't I?

edit:
main 'want' is to get the stories out with the best camera avail at the budget avail. Maybe it will be scarlet maybe it won't ... time will tell.

 

[Elsie N]

That's the spirit!

 

[Jeff Brown]

Relativity is key here. I've done more than decade in bang for buck shooting. The DV revolution (over hyped) , lense adapters etc. What Red offers now regardless of spec/ price changes is the best you've had / will get for a long time. If you cannot afford a camera that is thousands less than it's nearest competitor at equal/same spec then you are unreasonable in your expectations.

I've rented digibeta kits at £400 a day for shorts- I got a video not a film. Professional productions need professional tools. Red are much cheaper but don't expect to pay Curries/ Walmart (sorry i'm uk based)prices for a tool to make professional content.

If $1000 takes you over your budget then you should be renting not buying. Fact.

 

[Colin Sheldon]

Actually, I'm still hoping we'll someday see that "professional pocket camera" that Scarlet was originally announced as. I'm thinking something small -- like the size of good point and shoot. Something that actually fits in a pocket, no real frills, no interchangeable lenses, but it shoots quality RAW stills and motion.

Me too. I really liked the 3k for $3k concept. Maybe some day.