The Update Thread

[Jack Allred]

Jarred,
You mentioned something magical happens when you downsample from 8k to 4k... Can you comment on the wild eyed theory a couple people have posited about "~binning" 8K Helium field of view into a 4K r3d? Is anything like that in store for the epic-w features? I'd really like to stop thinking about it if it's not...

 

[Tom Dowler]

I've been out of the loop a while, just trying to catch up. But one thing confuses me... what is this Epic-W I keep reading about? Wasn't Epic the form factor that has now been replaced by Weapon? I was thinking maybe it was a parallel upgrade that would keep the Epic line going, but now seeing that picture above, I have no clue what is going on!

DSMC & DSMC2 are form factors. Epic and Weapon are model names.

Epic & Scarlet were DSMC and either had the MX or the Dragon sensor

Raven, Scarlet-W, Weapon (with Mg, CF woven, and CF forged varietals), Epic-W, Weapon Helium are all DSMC2.

Raven, S-W and Weapon have the Dragon sensor.

Epic-W and Weapon Helium will have the Helium sensor.

 

[Mike P.]

DSMC & DSMC2 are form factors. Epic and Weapon are model names.

Epic & Scarlet were DSMC and either had the MX or the Dragon sensor

Raven, Scarlet-W, Weapon (with Mg, CF woven, and CF forged varietals), Epic-W, Weapon Helium are all DSMC2.

Raven, S-W and Weapon have the Dragon sensor.

Epic-W and Weapon Helium will have the Helium sensor.

Which also implies an inevitable Raven-H and Scarlet-H... the thick plottens...

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

Jarred,
You mentioned something magical happens when you downsample from 8k to 4k... Can you comment on the wild eyed theory a couple people have posited about "~binning" 8K Helium field of view into a 4K r3d? Is anything like that in store for the epic-w features? I'd really like to stop thinking about it if it's not...

That would be quite a change, a welcome one

 

[Ron Hernandez]

So Jered i want to ask a question is the product that will be announced on the oct 11th is it going to be available this year or anytime soon i sold my camera to upgrade and the Scarlet & Raven won't be here till next year.

 

[Paul Kalbach]

From what I understand, Epic-W is 8K with Helium sensor. If i upgrade my Weapon-MG to Weapon Helium 8K...same sensor at 8K. I don't understand what the difference is between Epic-W and Weapon Helium 8K. Internal boards? Frame rates???

 

[Matthew Quinn]

http://nofilmschool.com/2016/07/ima...released-limited-edition-red-8k-helium-weapon

weapon helium specs are on this page

 

[Stacey Spears]

You mentioned something magical happens when you downsample from 8k to 4k...

It is a simple 2:1 scale for both horizontal and vertical. It is a nice scaling ratio that can produce superior results among many scaling algorithms. This should be cleaner than 6K to 4K. Its is like scaling 4K to 2K.

 

[jordan levy]

i wonder what camera is the closest to s35mm at 4KHD?
I tried to look at phils chart on full resolutions but doing the math started to hurt.
could it actually be the Raven or scarlet-w?

 

[Stacey Spears]

From what I understand, Epic-W is 8K with Helium sensor. If i upgrade my Weapon-MG to Weapon Helium 8K...same sensor at 8K. I don't understand what the difference is between Epic-W and Weapon Helium 8K. Internal boards? Frame rates???

The Weapon Helium specs are probably the same as VV 8K at least as far as we know. e.g. frame rates vs. resolution:

60 fps at 8K Full Frame (8192 x 4320), 75 fps at 8K 2.4:1 (8192 x 3456)
60 fps at 7K Full Frame (7168 x 3780), 75 fps at 7K 2.4:1 (7168 x 3024)
75 fps at 6K Full Frame (6144 x 3240), 100 fps at 6K 2.4:1 (6144 x 2592)
96 fps at 5K Full Frame (5120 x 2700), 120 fps at 5K 2.4:1 (5120 x 2160)
120 fps at 4K Full Frame (4096 x 2160), 150 fps at 4K 2.4:1 (4096 x 1728)
150 fps at 3K Full Frame (3072 x 1620), 200 fps at 3K 2.4:1 (3072 x 1296)
240 fps at 2K Full Frame (2048 x 1080), 300 fps at 2K 2.4:1 (2048 x 864)

5:1 REDCODE for 8K Full Frame (8192 x 4320) at 24 fps
12:1 REDCODE for 8K Full Frame (8192 x 4320) at 60 fps
2:1 REDCODE for 4K Full Frame (4096 x 2160) at 24 fps
3:1 REDCODE for 4K Full Frame (4096 x 2160) at 60 fps

The EPIC-W is a less expensive camera and may have lower specs in terms of both frame rates and compression ratios. We probably won't know all the details until 10/11.

Since the pixels are smaller, the FOV for a given resolution will be smaller than the same resolution on Dragon.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

From what I understand, Epic-W is 8K with Helium sensor. If i upgrade my Weapon-MG to Weapon Helium 8K...same sensor at 8K. I don't understand what the difference is between Epic-W and Weapon Helium 8K. Internal boards? Frame rates???

Epic-W & Helium 8k are to be considered most likely as two very different cameras...

Similarly to how the Weapon MG to the Weapon Carbon...

Sensors might be the same, but inner electronic capacity might surely be not...


So frame rates and Redcode could be very different one for the other, and reasonably so, as one will be much cheaper then the other.

 

[Brandon Kelly]

I have been sitting back and enjoying this thread quite a bit. As a current Scarlet-W owner, I am certainly looking forward to upgrading to the Epic-W. Two questions I had.

1. Would we be getting a new brain? Or just new internals?
2. People that order a Scarlet-W now just to get the deal, aka "cheaters". Would they be in front of me in the line for the new camera, even if they order after me once available on the 11th? This does not matter to me, as I am perfectly happy with my camera. Just asking more out of curiosity and am in no rush to upgrade.

exciting times. Thanks Red team.

 

[Samir Patel]

1. Would we be getting a new brain? Or just new internals?

I would suspect new brain. EPIC-W is clearly a black body. Back at the Scarlet-MX to Epic-MX upgrade time it was a new body. I don't think RED would want people running around with grey bodies with Epic guts in them (that would lead to a lot of confusion on sets)

This time... We aren't fucking around.

All Epic-Ws.

Good Lord! The excitement builds....

 

[Dominick Pietrzak]

Depends who you are ( camera wise ) If you are a DSMC2 customer ( Scarlet-W, Weapon MG, Weapon Carbon ) and you are doing a Helium upgrade its going to be a much faster process because of the mechanicals.

That said, There always will be periods of insanity that things stack up.

But this launch will be very different than our past launches.

This time... We aren't fucking around.

All Epic-Ws.

So if I'm a Weapon MG owner, and I get my order in right when the link goes live, pay the deposit and upgrade cost, what is the estimated turnaround time for when I'll get my Helium 8K?

 

[Carey Lee Coffey]

RED doesn't upgrade internals. They tried that once, I think it was a nightmare for them. You will just exchange your SW for an EW.

 

[Aaron Lochert]

Which also implies an inevitable Raven-H and Scarlet-H... the thick plottens...

By that logic, shouldn't Epic-W be named Epic-H? But then again, Scarlet-W has a "D" sensor, which would make it confusing for Scarlet Dragon people. And the "W" in Scarlet-W isn't even a sensor name. So who knows what a theoretical Raven+Helium or Scarlet+Helium would be called.

As much as I love this company and the products they make, the naming conventions are just a wee bit confusing.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

Epic Dragon to Epic-W upgrade pricing has not been officially disclosed.

And Brent will officially divorce me if I do... so stop tempting me.

I realize everyone has their sweet spots, but this is mine! Can't wait, and fingers crossed that this is a compelling number for those of us who have been patiently waiting for this development.

Can't wait to get into DSMC 2 and finally get over some of the painpoints of DSMC 1. I'm really hoping to build out my production workflow and capabilities with the tightness of form factor among many other things that DSMC 2 brings to the table.

 

[Joshua Keffer]

not a chance.

Might be a deal killer for me. I know we won't get high 8k frame rates in a $30k camera, but I was hoping for 48fps. I'm so curious about what the crop/compression will be for 60fps, because it's something I use all the time. I love that the Scarlet-W can do 50/60fps at 5k, which is one of the main reasons I ordered one. Might have to stick with SW after all.

 

[Stacey Spears]

I'm so curious about what the crop/compression will be for 60fps, because it's something I use all the time.

Take a look at Phil's video, Forged. It has a lot of 8K 60 and uses 12:1 compression to at least get an idea of what 12:1 looks like at 8K. To be clear, not saying that Epic-W can do 8K 60 at 12:1, just wanted to show 8K at the higher compression ratio to get a sense of quality. The Helium seems to be cleaner in black, so it should compress better than the 8K VV in low light. At least that is what I would expect.

 

[Joshua Keffer]

Take a look at Phil's video, Forged. It has a lot of 8K 60 and uses 12:1 compression to at least get an idea of what 12:1 looks like at 8K. To be clear, not saying that Epic-W can do 8K 60 at 12:1, just wanted to show 8K at the higher compression ratio to get a sense of quality. The Helium seems to be cleaner in black, so it should compress better than the 8K VV in low light. At least that is what I would expect.

That's a good point. 12:1 seems pretty clean in that case. But since we know the Epic-W will shoot less than 40fps at 8k, there may be some heavy crop factor going on to get to 60fps.

It may be that the S-W is the better camera for my needs. I'm just thinking out loud - wondering if I can get the low-light capability of Helium and still shoot some decent slow-mo frame rates (60) without a massive crop. That's probably asking too much at the Epic-W price point, which is understandable. If RED gives too much here it will start encroaching on the Weapon-Helium's space. We'll know for sure when the specs are released.

The good news is that either way I'm getting a great deal on an amazing camera! It's just a question of which one!