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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Update Thread

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Visar Sulejmani said:
Isn't that basically what HDRx does?
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Great question!

there are many different ways that HDR images can be created.

HDRX is a temporal HDR method. (Reliant on time of exposure)

imagine that our shutter is a pie.

in 180' shutter (1/48 or 1/50 if shooting 24 or 25fps) - half of our pie is exposure the other half is not used (blank/black time between frames).

HDRX uses a different part of the pie to capture a reduced exposure time that is extremely close to the first exposure at a lower exposure time.

depending on the number of stops desired the X track exposures are smaller slices of pie (lower exposure)

frames are then mixed together in post.

There are some other secret sauce magic to detail HDRX in depth, but this is a simple way I can explain my understanding of temporal HDR.

Dual Gain HDR is at a sensor level - imagine each pixel is a bucket, but there are two pipes out of the bottom of the bucket - one large pipe and one small. When a photon wave/particle splashes into the bucket the water shoots out of the two pipes at different intensities. The Two intensities allow for bright and dark exposure from the same pixel.

Again, there is much more to it, but hope this helps your understanding.

There are other tricks for some HDR in DSMC1/2 cameras like frame averaging - which I believe is a different approach to temporal with the mapping of images into a single track.

Personally, I felt I was able to get images I loved from the MX sensor, even the M sensor with a little more work (it had its own awesome look!) But I remember the first time experiencing the Dragon sensor when I TA'd an ASC master class and Dean Cundey was teaching - seeing the richness of the stand-in's hair and skin tone under a diffused 650w Mole tweenie, and seeing how the SDI feed responded so well to some LUT tweaks using my pomfort livegrade setup I was BLOWN AWAY. Naturally, in the hands of talent it almost doesn't matter what camera is being used - but let's just say on gut instinct I was EXTREMELY satisfied I had put down my Dragon upgrade deposit.

One of the biggest things I learned as a Red customer - there are benefits to being all in and paying attention as things happen.

Didn't check the forums for 24 hours on vacation - totally missed the special edition Heliums until it was too late. I probably would have taken down a pretty massive rental check on a helium body with a big company which switched to Helium from my Weapon CF body at the last minute. lesson learned - don't sleep on the good stuff !
 
Phil Holland said:
Where things are now?! At the moment we all know Epic-W is coming. RED has developed two of the best and leading sensor technologies in Dragon and Helium. There's also been various one off cameras like the Xenomorph, Bayhem, and recently Ranger bodies as well as the Panavision Millennium DXL line-up. These cameras represent special relationships to include technologies from many different sources to form a monster of motion picture camera. This leads to many questions. We also know there's some new color workflow coming. The industry has clearly taken notice. It's not 2009 anymore. It's 2016 and the cameras are very, very good now. Small, powerful, high resolution little beasts. Where things go from here are a bigger question mark. I have questions regarding 4K broadcast, 8K broadcast, and various other accessories that may or may not be in development. Also, I'm eyeballing things like the Ranger that perhaps shows what may lead up into a RED branded module or expander perhaps? OMOD is there for that flexibility as well.

Personally the most exciting moments for me over these years. RED One's release. Epic Announcement. Scarlet-X Announcment/Release (gateway drug man). DRAGON. DSMC2. 8K anyway you want it. Also the continued growth of REDuser as a community and very useful tool when it comes to education regarding how to get the best images possible out of these cameras, which has also grown into one of the better cinematography communities as well. Occasionally the compass dips south, but it seems to always find true north and keeps things on point.
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Thanks, Phil, for your post. It's great hearing the history from an insider. As an outsider, I remember seeing the announcement of the RED One and thinking, 'Some day, I'm going to get a RED camera...' Fast forward to now...We are shooting our first feature next April. We sat down and compared every camera in the market we could afford, watched footage, color graded, ranked them all by dynamic range, workflow, cost, etc. and the one that came out on top was Scarlet-W. So we will wait as long as we have to. We even bought RED t-shirts, so there's no turning back now :).
 
Also, as far as the Arri look vs. RED look...I'm not a color science expert, but I see a lot of movies at the theater (thanks to MoviePass), and there are so many movies done with these two cameras that both of them have become part of the digital cinema language in my opinion. That is, the subconcious part of my brain that separates a movie theater movie from a home video, now considers anything shot with either Arri or RED a movie theater movie. You can shoot a cat video with either camera and my brain says, movie theater movie. I'm not saying my brain should be the standard, but it used to be that only things shot on film looked to me like real movies, and digital was always home video, but these two cameras have changed things for me. And RED wins in resolution in my opinion. So I wouldn't worry about being able to match a RED to an Arri or vice-versa. They have both set the standard for digital cinema.
 
Dan Kanes said:
Great question!

there are many different ways that HDR images can be created.

HDRX is a temporal HDR method. (Reliant on time of exposure)

imagine that our shutter is a pie.

in 180' shutter (1/48 or 1/50 if shooting 24 or 25fps) - half of our pie is exposure the other half is not used (blank/black time between frames).

HDRX uses a different part of the pie to capture a reduced exposure time that is extremely close to the first exposure at a lower exposure time.

depending on the number of stops desired the X track exposures are smaller slices of pie (lower exposure)

frames are then mixed together in post.

There are some other secret sauce magic to detail HDRX in depth, but this is a simple way I can explain my understanding of temporal HDR.

Dual Gain HDR is at a sensor level - imagine each pixel is a bucket, but there are two pipes out of the bottom of the bucket - one large pipe and one small. When a photon wave/particle splashes into the bucket the water shoots out of the two pipes at different intensities. The Two intensities allow for bright and dark exposure from the same pixel.

Again, there is much more to it, but hope this helps your understanding.

There are other tricks for some HDR in DSMC1/2 cameras like frame averaging - which I believe is a different approach to temporal with the mapping of images into a single track.

Personally, I felt I was able to get images I loved from the MX sensor, even the M sensor with a little more work (it had its own awesome look!) But I remember the first time experiencing the Dragon sensor when I TA'd an ASC master class and Dean Cundey was teaching - seeing the richness of the stand-in's hair and skin tone under a diffused 650w Mole tweenie, and seeing how the SDI feed responded so well to some LUT tweaks using my pomfort livegrade setup I was BLOWN AWAY. Naturally, in the hands of talent it almost doesn't matter what camera is being used - but let's just say on gut instinct I was EXTREMELY satisfied I had put down my Dragon upgrade deposit.

One of the biggest things I learned as a Red customer - there are benefits to being all in and paying attention as things happen.

Didn't check the forums for 24 hours on vacation - totally missed the special edition Heliums until it was too late. I probably would have taken down a pretty massive rental check on a helium body with a big company which switched to Helium from my Weapon CF body at the last minute. lesson learned - don't sleep on the good stuff !
Click to expand...

ty for this information, and advice Dan
 
gonna have to wait and see!

One thing i keep thinking is: there are and will continue to be MANY projects that will need Dragon work done. and as we know Dragon is an incredible sensor. either way I am thrilled to learn the details in October
 
Lasse Mørkhagen said:
I knew I was in for a long wait when I ordered my camera. And with all the updates coming in October I kind of hope my camere does not get delivered any time soon, just in case I want to switch ;-)
Click to expand...

If you are still waiting for your Scarlet-W order come October... it's going to be pretty awesome for you.
 
Jarred Land said:
If you are still waiting for your Scarlet-W order come October... it's going to be pretty awesome for you.
Click to expand...

The plot thickens!!! This sounds very, interesting......
 
We might phrase it as a "reward for waiting"... But in reality it's more like a "yeah we fucked up, sorry "

and no you all aren't getting free cameras...but you will get some paths that are going to cost you a bit more money (and me a lot more money)... If you want.

Just make sure you pay attention... Because like usual... It will likely cause another traffic jam very quickly..
 
Jarred Land said:
We might phrase it as a "reward for waiting"... But in reality it's more like a "yeah we fucked up, sorry "

and no you all aren't getting free cameras...but you just get some paths that are going to cost you a bit more money (and me a lot more money)... If you want.

Just make sure you pay attention... Because like usual... It will likely cause another traffic jam very quickly..
Click to expand...

Fantastic news....the mystery makes it even more fun!
 
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