The score so far - Scarlet-X: 115; EOS C300: 1

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Look at the comment tally under the posts for each camera on DPReview's front page. I haven't yet read any of the comments but there is no doubt as to which camera captured the public's attention.

 

[Jay Birch]

Both cameras have some good and bad points, but the Canon being 8 bit is criminal in a $20k cinema camera. It's a shame, I love the form factor.

 

[Mark Tierney]

Agred. They go 10bit or 3K, sold. As is, its a non-starter.

 

[Ian McGrew]

If that Canon could shoot 1080p RAW... and was half the price I would consider buying two!

 

[J Davis]

What do you think about Vincent Laforet's comments about the c300 on his blog?
Bear in mind that Vincent is one of the few people who have used the c300 to shoot a production, and he owns an Epic-M

 

[JPSendall]

What do you think about Vincent Laforet's comments about the c300 on his blog?
Bear in mind that Vincent is one of the few people who have used the c300 to shoot a production, and he owns an Epic-M

I agree. I would love to have the experience of seeing it on the big screen. Vincent was quite complementary about the sharpness. However would also like to see the 4K Scarlet and then a Canon 300 in a split screen of the same subject. I think the Canon is going to get used a lot on TV, web based productions. It will find a market in low budget features too and some of the reasoning behind that will be the workflow even though R3D workflow is not a problem the Canon will be seen as an easier option.

 

[Jay Birch]

Resolution comes way down the list for my personal priorities, so the Canon was always in my sights (DR, low noise, fps, form, bitrate, codec, workflow etc come 1st).....

But 8 bit just takes away all the good they have done to get the sensor outputting 12 stops of DR and shooting at 12800+ iso... even at 4:2:2, it will not grade well and banding will become an issue.

Is it such a brain ache for someone to come out with a sub $20k, 1080p, s35, 12+ DR, 1-60fps, good low light sensor that shoots internally to 4:2:2, 10bit pro codec?

Sorry, I know this is not talking about RED.... but it is a good contrast to see a company doing things right (just launch a pro res module or better yet, a 1080p downscale straight to SSD, in pro res, and I will never look back)

 

[Peter Stadelmann]

The 300c is a good camera but not with these specifications for this price...

300c is from yesterday, the Scatlet is the future!

 

[Erich Ocean]

But 8 bit just takes away all the good they have done to get the sensor outputting 12 stops of DR and shooting at 12800+ iso... even at 4:2:2, it will not grade well and banding will become an issue.

This is just not accurate. Photoshop for years was 8-bit, worked fine. The multi-$100K Quantel Editbox I used in the late 90s was 8-bit.

The quality of the source matters a lot with 8-bit, that's 100% true. But 50Mbit MPEG2 is solid. And the experience of those who've worked with the footage is unanimous: the footage grades well, Canon Log works.

Banding is handled the way it's always been handled on good source material in 8-bit: by adding noise. If you're really, really concerned, add the bottom 2-bits of noise and transcode directly to 10-bit ProRes or DNxHD or DPX. It works.

Would I like 10-bit? Of course. But at the cost of waiting another year or two for the camera? Absolutely not.

The C300 hits a really sweet spot. I think it'll do very, very well. And it'll street below $20K, most likely $14-16K. It's a ton of camera for the price.

But it's no Epic-X. Mine arrives next Wed. (can't wait!).

 

[Zeb B]

What do you think about Vincent Laforet's comments about the c300 on his blog?
Bear in mind that Vincent is one of the few people who have used the c300 to shoot a production, and he owns an Epic-M

He is paid by Canon to comment

 

[Malvin Ng]

Actually DPreview didn't even know about the Scarlet being released... I poked them later in the day and asked if they left it out on purpose, hence why the post date is 4th November

 

[Luc Bouvrette]

He is paid by Canon to comment

Obviously.

 

[Kyle Gentz]

There is no question that the C300 makes pretty images, But so does my 7D.

 

[Christian Jadot]

The C300 has a beautiful sensor. It really is amazing. If canon brings the processing power to back it up in the future, they will have a really nice camera.

 

[Jon Carr]

Tv commercials, music videos, short films and anywhere in between where the dslr proved well, the c300 will go to productions wanting to shoot on a new 20k dslr. Cause that's really what it is bottom line.

I personally would like to shoot on it at least once. They will get a lot of indie use to people wanting something better then a dslr, but cant afford/doesnt want to shoot RED or alexa. But I will never buy one, it's not what I want for production, and not at all for post. But I'm interested in what images I can get from it even though all it's sub par features for the price.

 

[Phil Holland]

I've held the C300 in my hands. I really like the design of the thing. Production friendly I guess you'd call it. Certainly looks pretty, but looks aren't everything. It's just not an amazing deal for the feature set and release price. It is plastic and feels like it, but the benefit is that it is light weight. People will purchase the C300 no doubt. I'm more surprised by what's not in there in terms of overcranking, autofocus, etc. We all knew they would keep that recording format and it's good old tech, but they could have slammed raw support in there. 8-bit is also very yesterday and I have no clue why that happened.

I mean with timecode support now in the $6800 1DX and a full frame sensor is the neat new sensor in the C300 worth the extra $13,000? This makes me think that Canon is at war with themselves. And the fact that basically after Red dropped the Scarlet X info Canon comes back and states "we'll be releasing a 4k HDSLR soon everybody, promise!" If that isn't inside the 1DX considering it's processing power I'd be shocked. Take note how the official "burst fps" on the official Canon website is "TBA".

We would likely all have a different opinion if the C300 landed at $10k, which I'm shocked Canon didn't aim for. I'm betting the feature set will likely be tweaked come February. That sensor produces more than the camera exports.

The very neat Canon announcement that day for me was the lenses. Nice build quality, interesting price point, and appears to be nice optically. A little shocked they didn't release 5 primes and just 3, especially on the wide end. A variable aperture zoom was a strange choice in there two.


The Scarlet X is a different beast. It's a metal brick and I could probably fight crime with it if I had to. It's suitable for 4k theatrical projection which provides lasting power behind your investment. Remember, we will literally be seeing the first 4k broadcast work in 2012. No camera is future proof, but Scarlet X is more forward thinking than what pretty much everybody else is doing. Scarlet X is an insane deal if you look at it. 16bit REDCODE Raw workflow, 4k capture, HDRx, and more. There's also an upgrade path with Red which you don't get with the Sony F3 or Canon C300. Sometime next year Dragon will land and you'll be able to throw Red money and make your initial investment even better. Beyond the F3's fairly expensive sLog software update, the big manufacturers really never do that.

Red has won my heart with the Scarlet X concept. None of these cameras are cheap. I think that has frustrated many, but Scarlet X is a powerful and professional tool that can keep you working and working for a while.

 

[David Rasberry]

Poll at DVXuser is running 87% in favor of Scarlet over the C300.

Canon's 8-bit 4:2:2 50Mbs codec is very clean and high quality for what it is. It led to BBC approving the 1/3" XF300 cameras for indie production, a first for a 1/3" format camera. $20k is too high a price though.

Scarlet has a much broader range of potential applications though. The 5k stills potential is phenomenal if it matches Epic. Makes Scarlet a true multi-role DSMC instead of just another large sensor HD camera.

 

[Christian Jadot]

None of these cameras are cheap. I think that has frustrated many, but Scarlet X is a powerful and professional tool that can keep you working and working for a while.

I think this says it right there. There is a major market to be filled in the sub $10K cameras. This is what the no budget indie guys are looking for, and it is right around the corner. A step above the DSLR's and the "100" type camera, but below the Scarlet. That market is itching to be tapped. If the C300 ready to shoot package was $8,000-9,000 canon would definately have a winner.

 

[Jay Birch]

This is just not accurate. Photoshop for years was 8-bit, worked fine.

It is accurate when weighing it up next to 16bit Epic. which is what the initial topic is all about. 8bit can grade ok.... but push it too far and it will collapse.

 

[drew sandoval]

I love Red, but I have to admit there is gonna be a really strong place for the C300 in tv and commercials. I don't think this camera is ever gonna grab hold in feature filmmaking, but its application for tv, where networks are always looking to shave a day off production schedules and aren't worried about future-proofing their productions, is the real spot where this camera will get play. As it is, tv production is pretty much ruled by f35s and Alexas, and compared to those cameras this one is a steal.