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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Red Gunner

Some choices are easy: the life of one Japanese whaler or a single whale. I have no doubt the crew of Sea Shepherd would save the man.

How about choosing between a thousand Japanese whalers and the extinction of a species of whales? Which would you choose?

Which is more important; nature's beautiful creatures and the balance of marine life, or an expensive self-indulgent delicacy for wealthy Japanese?

I might add that the survival value of human intelligence is yet to be fully tested; it may in fact be some cruel cosmic joke as we continue to use our tool-making intelligence to defile the planet and develop devices and biological agents which may end our time on earth.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
My hat's off to you, Florian; just beautiful and compelling.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo
 
I reallllllyyyyyyy want to be an assassin..BIG TIME..
so if anyone needs any poacher, whalers, dog hunters.. or any human reeking havok on animals, taken care of.. hit me up.. about to make my purchase of a Barret m107 and a badass ghillie suit
 
Florian Stadler said:
Pawel, check this out:

http://florianstadler.com/Media/greenpeace.mov

My first time shooting 4K - shot on - gasp - DALSA Origin
Click to expand...

Beautifully shot and edited! Very good!

And not as a comment to your work (or disrespect in any way), but as a comment to the debate:

If you were to go into a slaghter house (of any kind) and film a cow, bull or pig (whatever animal) beeing slaughtered, and intercut it with pictures of the animals happily in the wild and beautifully lit pictures of an aging and wise A-list actor, I am pretty sure the emotional result would be exactly the same.

Most modern people, are too far from where the food originates, they´d buy a burger/hotdog/chicken sandwich without giving it a second thought anyday.

I can respect a man/woman who is a vegetarian because they don´t believe in the taking of any life, and especially concidering the cruel way animals are mostly kept while they are beeing fed up to go to the slaughter house (in most parts of the world)- or the way the hens are kept, so they can lay as many eggs as possible, at the lowest cost.
Because neither of these things are nice, no more or less than harpooning a whale.

Some object to the killing of a cow, because they believe them to be holy. to me the killing of a dog is far out, because I concider dogs mans best friend, it´s cultural in my case - while others look on dogs as one of the lowest forms of life, while other sees them as a delicassy.

In Norway there is a limited whaling season - with a strict system of licences to each boat for the numbers of animals they can kill. The only hunted whale is the minke whale, Norway has put a lot of time and money into following the minke whale population in it´s waters, and believes this harvesting is sustainable.

It is NOT pretty to look at, but neither is killing a chicken, a cow, a pig or anything else that´s living.

Imoh the best way to shoot, is on RED...

But I am as guilty as anyone who eats meat!
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
I reallllllyyyyyyy want to be an assassin..BIG TIME..
so if anyone needs any poacher, whalers, dog hunters.. or any human reeking havok on animals, taken care of.. hit me up.. about to make my purchase of a Barret m107 and a badass ghillie suit
Click to expand...

You've been watching too many movies!:tongue_smilie:
 
Jon Bingham said:
Clint, animals go extinct, you are right. However, you say us humans are intelligent? The rate at which animals go extinct as a result of our irresponsibility and self-involvement is entirely within our control yet we do hardly anything about it. To ignore a consciousness of our surroundings is irresponsible. I don't know if you heard, but some of the biggest news which surfaced around where I live is when Kanye West disrupted the MTV award ceremony. I feel disgraced as a human at times when we have the ability to make earth a better place for everything on the planet and it's forever debatable to do so. One thing is for sure, nature takes it's course. There is no way around that. Maybe it will get to the point when we're extinct too. Intelligently extinct at least. I'd rather garner the respect of fellow creatures in the animal kingdom then worry about beating them in a game of cards.
Click to expand...

Intelligence consists of the ability to reason, think abstractly, plan for the future, solve problems and to learn. There is a huge gulf between what humans can do in these areas and what anything else can do.

I agree that we often spend so much energy on what is insignificant - Michael Jackson's death was on the front pages of nearly every news outlet for weeks and there was hardly a peep about the death of Norman Borlaug- a man that has been credited with saving the lives of over a billion humans. In a truely decent and rational world, people everywhere should have wept at Norman's passing and asked "who?" on the passing of Michael.

I am actually on the fence as to the survivability of intelligence. We are progressing a lot faster in our ability to render ourselves extinct than we are shedding the dangerous intellectual detritus that evolution has saddled us with.

I do happen to place a very high regard on that intelligence though. It is what sets us apart and makes us of paramount importance to life itself. We are the only life forms that we know of that have the ability understand, appreciate and to extend life out of the cradle that it is trapped in right now. Without intelligence, life is doomed to be a transient and insignificant artifact of the universe.

But intelligence is a lonely path right now and you shouldn't anthropomorphizing any "fellow creatures in the animal kingdom" into being capable of anything like respect. They don't know you, can't know you and do not have the capacity for any meaningful respect. You are projecting the respect you hold for yourself onto the creatures that you have empathy for. This is common enough even between humans but you really shouldn't let it cloud your thought processes.
 
sorry for the off topic post (It's long...... sorry)

I just watched whale wars recently and due to the dirty feeling it gave me watching it I decided to research into what both sides were saying. I went from feeling that killing any whales was wrong, to supporting it.

It is legal to hunt minkie's but within a set quota (by each country but most have been fair, and none have been maxed in the years since the change). considering their numbers are increasing and potentially threatening to take food from some endangered species, this is still being researched.

weather or not the Japanese are doing actual science or taking advantage of a loop hole, it was part of their culture, and the west abused it, it was part of native Canadian cultures as well, but they had no part in the over hunting of them, and now their traditional diet and culture is being threatened due to others greed.

My main problem with most environmental groups is lack of foresight, and understanding of the biodiversity and circle of life (lion king I know...) on this planet. Most of the time they only care for animals, or plants, or water or tree's, and when they come into conflict with each other instead of working together they fight. animals have gone exteninct before we were here (and when you get down to it we are part of the eco system and animals too), and in fact the biodiversity of the earth has never been as diverse as it is now. so what happens when we begin saving animals that would have gone extinct no matter what. I don't know and the thing is i don't believe most environmental groups know either.

Mah it's a messy issue like many things in this worldl. Now I don't know all the facts and may be wrong, but I am open to conversation and rational points. I love the planet too, but if we are going to save lets actually do something productive.

I hope I didn't offend anyone especially Pawel, who seems like a very nice person, this is just my opinion being a passionate environmentalist before this whole "green" fad hit and I'm still struggling to get a grip on what is the proper way to help the planet and the people on it.

sorry for the rant, I just needed to get it out somewhere.
 
Zakaree Sandberg said:
there were no mass killing machines written into the circle of life.
Click to expand...

I don´t know what you eat Zakaree, but if you eat meat of any kind, it most likely comes from a "Killing machine" of some sort.(And not to mention eggs... what the hens have to go through)
 
Eirik Tyrihjel said:
Most modern people, are too far from where the food originates, they´d buy a burger/hotdog/chicken sandwich without giving it a second thought anyday.

I can respect a man/woman who is a vegetarian because they don´t believe in the taking of any life, and especially concidering the cruel way animals are mostly kept while they are beeing fed up to go to the slaughter house (in most parts of the world)- or the way the hens are kept, so they can lay as many eggs as possible, at the lowest cost.
Because neither of these things are nice, no more or less than harpooning a whale.

Some object to the killing of a cow, because they believe them to be holy. to me the killing of a dog is far out, because I concider dogs mans best friend, it´s cultural in my case - while others look on dogs as one of the lowest forms of life, while other sees them as a delicassy.
Click to expand...

What we are is omnivores. We can pretend to be herbivores but it is a self deluding practice that is only healthy when supported by a sufficiently industrialized society. That said, we suffer more health problems from an over consumption of meat than a dearth of it in our diet.

I do feel strongly that it is a moral imperative to inflict as little emotional and physical harm as we can in the taking of a life- for our table or for any other reason. I would appreciate an organization that would monitor and hold the meat industry to a standard. The problem is that the groups that do grow up tend to be overrun by those who have a strong antipathy to the very act of consuming meat and so tend to go off on the "meat is murder" tangent. This irrational but dedicated minority pretty much make sure that I will not get anything like a "Seal of Grudging Acceptance" for a farm and abattoir. There has been a general lifting up of the standards due to the pressure put on the industry by groups like the Humane Society and PETA but if they stepped back from the brink, they would have a much greater impact on the quality of life these animals have.

At least with conscientious hunting you know that the kill is as quick and humane as you can make it... although I know my share of hunters where that is most definitely not a given.

Another thing to consider is that the animals that we have domesticated have hit the evolutionary jackpot and spread across the world in the tens and hundreds of millions. If PETA and their ilk were to succeed in eliminating meat and dairy from our diet, do these people realize that would mean the extinction of most of these species?
 
For the record I would like to be catagorised as "Omnivores".... I was just making arguments trying to say why I think there is no worse killing whales (as long as it´s not making them extinct) than killing a bull, pig, chicken whatever. (but I guess you could understand that from reading my post - just want to clarify.
 
Eirik Tyrihjel said:
I was just making arguments trying to say why I think there is no worse killing whales (as long as it´s not making them extinct) than killing a bull, pig, chicken whatever.
Click to expand...

I think there is a difference between a farm animal and a wild animal species that is getting close to extinction. It is not the killing itself that is cruel I agree, but extinguishing an entire species. And of course my Greenpeace spot is a piece of propaganda, trying to elicit an emotional response through the use of images, music and poetry.
 
Florian Stadler said:
I think there is a difference between a farm animal and a wild animal species that is getting close to extinction. It is not the killing itself that is cruel I agree, but extinguishing an entire species. And of course my Greenpeace spot is a piece of propaganda, trying to elicit an emotional response through the use of images, music and poetry.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%, but from what I know the minke whale is nowhere near extinct. (I am speaking only of minke whales, might be a different species in your film).

No doubt norwegians has contributed to putting some of the whale species in the "close to extinct group" in the past, but that has all changed with knowledge. Decades ago before anyone really knew (or cared) much about the preservation of animals and nature - norway made an industry of whaling. I believe they (we) are pretty careful of what they do nowadays.
My grandfather was whaling sometime before WW2, according to his notebooks he spent 2 years on a whaling ship, before he went to Canada to help build their railways.
 
¨Without intelligence, life is doomed to be a transient and insignificant artifact of the universe.¨
It is doomed to be what we're hardwired to be, as such wakes from such tales are doomed to be forgotten, and this words are to be drowned. we smile to what's lost, and cherish our passing. I believe in what I don't know, for the sake of it's certainty.
 
http://media.causes.com/510213?p_id=77461834

The younger generation to whom we have a responsibility to leave this planet in a better state than we found it have a view and are speaking out. Its about time we listened.

Abolishing whaling is a small but critical part of ensuring we protect our environment and the creatures with whom we share this planet.
 
Ok, guys. By page four of this whaling debate you had successfully justified the need to own a RedGunner. No question about that. :violent5:

Are there any other good excuses to own a RedGunner out there?
 
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