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The Next Red Aquisition

James McLellan

James McLellan

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Red really surprised everyone when they licensed the technology for the motion mount. Now they need to license the Metabones speed booster tech and put it into their mounts to max out the full frame lenses people are using on their Epics.

People can say what they want about the speed booster but the testing has been unbelievable. I think the lens speed revolution is about to kick off. What do you guys think?
 
Do we actually know that the tech for Motion Mount was licensed? I thought I remembered Jarred saying it was not the same technology as was already out there.
 
Speedbooster has really made an impact for some of my B-Cam setups such as GH2 and BMPCC. There are some tradeoffs but what you gain can also be pretty great.
 
Bob Gundu said:
Already exists! Sort of...

https://vimeo.com/70298333
Click to expand...

I saw that video. To me it's a bit odd as it only spreads the image circle a bit. Doing so must also introduce some artifacts, read softness. So why use it? Is it not much easier just to crop in on the sensor instead? I have a hard time to believe that making the projection of the lens bigger makes the end result better. So a Academy sized lens covers 6k dragon (and loose light and add glass to the stack) and then downsample to 4k is a better option than just shoot with the given lens and crop the sensor to 4k.

The Speed booster on the other hand does the absolute opposite of the above, it takes a large image circle and makes it smaller and by doing so intensify the light and actually makes the image sharper per pixel and also it gives a wider image with less dof. But as it makes projection smaller its only good for small sensor cameras, that want to use large (35mm lenses) not really a good thing for epic a long as you do not shoot highspeed 2k or such. and want to use the full capacity of your lens and gain some light in the process.

It's also lame that they got completely different grades on the two lens samples that they are comparing. Of course an old lens looks different but the new lens could without much grading struggle be much closer matched I think.
 
I agree. This video and adatpter is not fair. I was about to write totally stupid, but I have to test it first. I guess someone is sitting on some old pl glass thay was to sell for nice price :)



Björn Benckert said:
I saw that video. To me it's a bit odd as it only speads the image circle a bit. Doing so must also introduce some artifacts, read softness. So why use it? Is it not much easier just to crop in on the sensor instead? I have a hard time to believe that making the projection of the lens bigger. So a Academy sized lens covers 6k dragon (and loose light and add glass to the stack) and then downsample to 4k is a better option than just shoot with the given lens and crop the sensor to 4k.

The Speed booster on the other hand does the absolute opposite of the above, it takes a large image circle and makes it smaller and by doing so intensify the light and actually makes the image sharper per pixel and also it gives a wider image with less dof. But as it makes projection smaller its only good for small sensor cameras, that want to use large (35mm lenses) not really a good thing for epic a long as you do not shoot highspeed 2k or such. and want to use the full capacity of your lens and gain some light in the process.

It's also lame that they got completely different grades on the two lens samples that they are comparing. Of course an old lens looks different but the new lens could without much grading struggle be much closer matched I think.
Click to expand...
 
Why is it called a "speed booster" if it loses 1/2 stop of light?
 
Brian Broz said:
Why is it called a "speed booster" if it loses 1/2 stop of light?
Click to expand...

Bobs video does not show the speed boster but something else, more of a speed looser, or adapter that works the other way of the speed booster.
 
Not sure about the digitaloptik, but the speed booster actually makes the images circle smaller -- cramming a "full frame image onto an s35/APS-C/mFT/s16 sized sensor." It is basically optically supersampling in the image, which results in a sharper (and brighter) projection (in the same way that 4k supersampled to 1080p looks sharper)...

...That's the logic anyway. Not sure how it performs but I haven't seen a bad review of the unit yet and full res stills look mighty good for "f1.2 equivalent" lenses (that are actually f1.8).

EDIT: The digitaloptik looks more like a doubler -- they used to use them to make s16 glass fill an s35 frame (but it'd get mighty soft and lose light, much like the digitaloptik does).
 
Bob Gundu said:
Already exists! Sort of...

https://vimeo.com/70298333
Click to expand...

You had me excited Bob. Unfortunately not what I am thinking of. If you could speed up your lenses by a full stop, increase the sharpness and FOV at the same time...well, it would be crazy. Canon EOS, K35, CP2 any full frame lens is going to rock. Someone has to do this!
 
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An E or FE-mount would probably need a new body due the smaller flange distance and we don't even have a A-mount yet, which could mean something or nothing more than RED doesn't see this as being useful (but i think it would be nice to have autofocusing Zeiss lenses on a RED).

So, back to the idea of a speed-booster like mount, i would like to throw a idea or two on the table. We don't have only one crop factor here, so we do need a bit more, why not add exchangeable lenses to that? And the second thought, there is something like Liquid Lenses out there, could that be the solution for a vari-speedboster? ;)

Besides that, i don't think RED needs to aquire Metabones or something, their product isn't that special, they just came out with it at the right time and when cameras with shorter flange distances made it practically possible.
 
James McLellan said:
You had me excited Bob. Unfortunately not what I am thinking of. If you could speed up your lenses by a full stop, increase the sharpness and FOV at the same time...well, it would be crazy. Canon EOS, K35, CP2 any full frame lens is going to rock. Someone has to do this!
Click to expand...

But then you got a BMCC sized image not a 5K full epic sensor image.. So it's only completely valid on smaller chip cameras.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Do we actually know that the tech for Motion Mount was licensed? I thought I remembered Jarred saying it was not the same technology as was already out there.
Click to expand...

AFAIK it was never publicly confirmed, that tech for Soft Shutter in Motion Mount came from Tessive, it might've as well been internal development in that area. Tessive stopped selling Time Filter somewhere around that time, though, maybe just a coincidence...
 
Björn Benckert said:
But then you got a BMCC sized image not a 5K full epic sensor image.. So it's only completely valid on smaller chip cameras.
Click to expand...

Speed booster tech has many flavours. It can take a full frame image circle and shrink it to APS-C. That's the sweet one. The MFT stuff is interesting but not relevant to Epic. Currently many users are shooting with full frame lenses that have yet to reach their full potential on a 1.3 crop sensor.
 
Björn Benckert said:
But then you got a BMCC sized image not a 5K full epic sensor image.. So it's only completely valid on smaller chip cameras.
Click to expand...
Doesn't have to be, you can make one for every target image-circle you desire. 1 to 1.2 will probably not gain as much brightness as a 1 to 1.6 does, but it would still allow to use the full fov of a ff lens, and maybe increase sharpness a bit. And then think about having the full ff35-fov in lower res crop-modes for highspeed stuff, or maybe one speedboster that compresses the full image circle of medium format lenses to whats needed for 6k on Dragon? ;)
 
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Vadim Bobkovsky said:
AFAIK it was never publicly confirmed, that tech for Soft Shutter in Motion Mount came from Tessive, it might've as well been internal development in that area. Tessive stopped selling Time Filter somewhere around that time, though, maybe just a coincidence...
Click to expand...

I thought Tessive was acquired by Red, the stopped selling the day Red announced their mount.
 
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