The New Mac Pro is Here!!!

[DJ Meyer]

Atleast RTX Quadro 6000 x2 + 30% apple tax ~ $12k, when it's lower I would be surprised.

I thought the whole point of AMD GPUs was how cheap they are?

$5K for the dual Vega II MPX or gtfo

 

[Frank Glencairn]

I seriously don’t get the bitching about the price. The Mac Pro was never for the average user. If it’s too expensive for you, odds are you really don’t need one.

I don't have a problem with a $6000 price tag for a proper workstation - most of the workstations I build where in that ballpark.
But I have a problem with a $6000 price tag on a machine, that is slower than a iMacPro.

I did an article on this, if someone is interested: https://frankglencairn.wordpress.com/2019/06/04/the-new-macpro-we-need-to-talk/

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Atleast RTX Quadro 6000 x2 + 30% apple tax ~ $12k, when it's lower I would be surprised.

Ugh...

I'm currently budgeting about 10k towards this new Mac Pro. I guess I'll be better off using Radeon VII for now.

Heck, 4 of them would probably be cheaper than one of these Vega II Duos.

4 Radeon VII 16GB would total under $2800.

Seems like that wouldn't be a bad setup for Resolve with 64GB of total video memory.

 

[Misha Engel]

I thought the whole point of AMD GPUs was how cheap they are?

$5K for the dual Vega II MPX or gtfo

For you maybe, for most it's price/perf.

3x Radeon VII ~ $2,100 vs. 1x RTX quadro 5000 ~ $2,300

AMD is not that expensive, Apple is a different story.

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Wait...looks like the MacPro only has 2 sets of 8pin power connections internally, 300w per set.
Can you even power 4 off the shelf GPUs in there?

With 75w from four slots, plus 2x300w, plus 75w aux, that gives us 975w useable power.
So are we limited to 3 powered GPUs at 300w each?

 

[Andy_Johnson]

But I have a problem with a $6000 price tag on a machine, that is slower than a iMacPro.

This is not a fair or entirely accurate comparison.

 

[Frank Glencairn]

Explain

 

[Mike Halper]

Can we please stop comparing the announced base model against pimped PCs - it's pointless. The more relevant comparo would be in the $8-12K range. I'd imagine the Apple Tax would still be substantial, but not the "obvious ripoff" narrative one can construct with 256GB flash, a modest CPU and a "placeholder" GPU.

Cheers - #19

You have to compare performance to performance. Bottom line is that you can build a computer with equal performance for half the price. Of course that changes a little when you get into the super high core count because those are only available in Xeon, but how many people do you think are realistically going to spend $20,000 plus on a computer?

I’m not saying people won’t buy it, but there are more people who won’t (and don’t need that power, but want something more powerful than a Mac Mini and the ability to hook up their own monitor) than people who will.

 

[Andy_Johnson]

Explain

The only glaring difference between the two is the graphics card of the *base* models where the iMac pulls ahead slightly.
Yes you can compare only performance, but the unfairness comes from *why* you purchase the Mac Pro vs. the iMac Pro - expand-ability and overhead.
For a $1000 price difference (again, of base models) you get the option for: internal expansion, far superior cooling (longevity of parts and sustained turbo boosting of CPUs - iMac Pros have more readily thermal throttling), RAM, 10 extra cores (20 additional threads), 4x AMD Radeon Pro Vega IIs, etc, etc.

Just my $.02

 

[Mike Halper]

That's not quite true. Yes you can overclock, but considering apples-to-apples comparisons (no pun intended) since we want equal hardware longevity, a comparable build would be around $3200.
Linus covered that here: https://youtu.be/PPiEpSMkzoo?t=724
The rest of that video after the time I linked, he also covers the past Mac Pro prices - we are all in agreement on the fact that it's marked way up haha.

I agree you can save money by building it, but not as low as $2000 if you expect the same quality/longevity.

That’s still about double the price for the Mac Pro with similar performance. Willing to pay a little Apple tax, but double? Let’s be realistic here. This Mac Pro is grossly overpriced. Apple should at least offer the i9 GPUs for those who don’t need Xeon or more than 128GB of (ECC RAM).

 

[Misha Engel]

Wait...looks like the MacPro only has 2 sets of 8pin power connections internally, 300w per set.
Can you even power 4 off the shelf GPUs in there?

With 75w from four slots, plus 2x300w, plus 75w aux, that gives us 975w useable power.
So are we limited to 3 powered GPUs at 300w each?

Undervolt them to 240 Watt each.

https://www.tomshw.de/2019/02/27/rtg-radeon-tweaker-group-amd-radeon-vii-mods-tweaks-fuer-neueinsteiger-und-profis-igorslab/3/

Above values are at ~ stock speeds Base Clock: 1450 MHz, Boost Clock: 1800 MHz, Memory Bandwidth: 1024 GB/s

https://www.tomshw.de/2019/02/27/rtg-radeon-tweaker-group-amd-radeon-vii-mods-tweaks-fuer-neueinsteiger-und-profis-igorslab/2/

When you set the values for the Boost Clock at 1700 MHz at 0.95Volt and leave the memory bandwidth as it is you will be below 240 watt torture (FP32 ~ 13 TFlops).
With these setting the sound levels will be between RTX2080 and RTX2080ti FE edition.

You will need the Apple version of Wattman.

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

Hmm...physical connections seem tricky. I feel like I would need to restrict the cards to 225w each.
Pull 150w from each of the 4 8pin connectors, plus the 75w from each slot.

 

[Bruce Allen]

Can we please stop comparing the announced base model against pimped PCs - it's pointless. The more relevant comparo would be in the $8-12K range. I'd imagine the Apple Tax would still be substantial, but not the "obvious ripoff" narrative one can construct with 256GB flash, a modest CPU and a "placeholder" GPU.

I would prefer do that, but Apple haven't announced prices for a good mid-level system yet.

They always priced SSDs and RAM really high though. So I think then the price performance might get even worse.

Again I do want one of these for myself (well, two since I've had a lot of Apple logic boards die on me in the past so I would never base a workflow on just one computer).

But that cost does get quite substantial, even compared to the cost of software licenses. And especially if it's slower / worse for all of those things NVIDIA GPUs perform better at.

Then this version is probably no-go for me.

Next year's model with PCIe4 sounds appealing though!

Bruce Allen
www.bruceallen.tv

 

[Mike Halper]

This article pretty much hits the nail on the head.

https://www.macworld.com/article/34...le-for-the-professionals-theyre-made-for.html

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

This article pretty much hits the nail on the head.

https://www.macworld.com/article/34...le-for-the-professionals-theyre-made-for.html

"If you buy one of every pro apple product..." What a bizare point to make, one of everything? I could see people buying a Macbook Pro and an iPad Pro with the Pro apps but one of everything? That's not an "aspiring creative professional" it's the beginings of a small business. I had a look at the price of the Powermac G4 and the studio display he claimed to have gotten for a combined $1200 and it would have been at least $2000 so he's either misremembered or is flat out lying. Besides $25k isn't a mortgage it's a deposite.

 

[Mike Halper]

"If you buy one of every pro apple product..." What a bizare point to make, one of everything? I could see people buying a Macbook Pro and an iPad Pro with the Pro apps but one of everything? That's not an "aspiring creative professional" it's the beginings of a small business. I had a look at the price of the Powermac G4 and the studio display he claimed to have gotten for a combined $1200 and it would have been at least $2000 so he's either misremembered or is flat out lying. Besides $25k isn't a mortgage it's a deposite.

I think you’re missing the point...

 

[James Falco]

A week ago I got in a Über with my assistant after a shoot carrying my RED camera in my hand. The driver who was driving a new Toyota Prius instantly reacted saying wow that camera looks expensive, and that he could never afford a camera like this. I told him that it cost as much as his car. The only difference is that I just made $1,800 sooting a corporate interview for 4 hours and that he will go home with $250 after a 10 hour night. Not counting gas insurance and possible tickets.
He was clearly insulted by my rather arrogant statement because he didn’t say a single word for the rest of the drive.

I don’t know why people constantly complain about the cost of technology. Its not what you put in it, but what can you get out of it.

If you love tinkering with computer parts, installing drivers for days and overclocking CPU’s.
Fine, build your own rig for cheep.

I have more money than time. I need a the most powerful computer that runs macOS and works out of the box.
I will make the cost of a fully pimped out mac pro 50 times over bore its absolute.
The only issue I have with it: does it come in black?

lol.

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

I think you’re missing the point...

I don't, it's the Mac Pro everyone with any sense knew it was going to come with a hefty price tag. The expensiveness of these syetems are reliative, if your business calls for one you can probably afford it. If not then you weren't buying one anyway. We don't even know what the real costs of the machine are anyway since you won't be able to spec one up until pre-orders start.

The only issue I have with it: does it come in black?

lol.

You could probably paint it easily enough. The cover does slide right off after all.

 

[Misha Engel]

Hmm...physical connections seem tricky. I feel like I would need to restrict the cards to 225w each.
Pull 150w from each of the 4 8pin connectors, plus the 75w from each slot.

2x Radeon VII will give you around 70fps of 8k.R3D FF de-bayer speed, supstract some compute power for metal GPU decoding and you still have 60+fps.
To me the iMacPro with 2 eGPU's is better value for money.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Most people complaining about the price are those who are once again left out of Apple’s product map. As we had with the previous cheese grater Mac pros and iMacs, there’s a gaping hole in the product line where an all in one doesn’t fit the needs of the user and the pro workstation is just too much pro. As they have an iMac and an iMac Pro, Apple really needs a Mac and a Mac Pro. The Mac Mini is not what this Mac should be, nor is the iMac. They need a desktop system with desktop class i-Series (i5, i7, i9) CPU options and some degree of expandability. Like two PCIe slots or what constitutes one of the MPX bays in the new Mac Pro.

Yes, this would overlap and steal from Mac Pro sales on the low end, but in the long run they will sell more systems overall. If they made such a beast with a quad-core i5, 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD and no GPU installed (using Intel integrated GPU on the base model), 4 x TB3/USB-C ports, HDMI port and single 10GE port... Price it at $1299 to start, they would sell like crazy. Make an 8-core i7, 512GB SSD, and 8GB Navi GPU config for $2499 and a 10-core i9 with 64GB RAM, 2TB SSD, 16GB GPU as the top configuration around $4000, it would still be a winner. And would plug that giant hole between the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro.

Sometimes I think Apple focuses too much effort on the “pro” image aspect of their systems and while that’s fine and good I would also like to see them make a couple more computer offerings so they have computers for everyone and every market.

That said, the new Mac Pro is actually priced competitively within its intended market. I see them doing exactly as they did with the past cheese grater and they will price right in step with HP and Dell for their comparable Xeon workstations. I’m buying one to start, but fully intend to install aftermarket RAM and possibly SSD storage as well. Eventually I’ll probably have more than a few Mac Pros around here as I did in the past. I’m expecting they will have an update to this new Mac Pro in 18 to 24 months after it launches and that update will be significant, bringing us PCIe v4 and Thunderbolt 4. Neither of which are ready to go at the moment. PCIe v4 will [should] be supported on the next Xeon iteration, which would work timing wise with the subsequent update.