The NETFLIX look

[Brett Harrison]

I might be wrong, but it seems a lot of the image quality and look between various Netflix shows has a commonality. The Crown, Riverdale, Stranger Things. There's an incredible dynamic range and colour beauty - doesn't remind me of anything. I notice that the tech specs are rarely listed on IMDb.

Any clues out there? Seems a few of the colourists work at Technicolor.

 

[M Most]

I might be wrong, but it seems a lot of the image quality and look between various Netflix shows has a commonality. The Crown, Riverdale, Stranger Things. There's an incredible dynamic range and colour beauty - doesn't remind me of anything. I notice that the tech specs are rarely listed on IMDb.

Any clues out there? Seems a few of the colourists work at Technicolor.

The Crown is (I believe) finished in London. Riverdale is not a Netflix show (it is a CW show,at least in the US), and is, judging from the credits I see, finished at either Encore or Picture Shop. Stranger Things is finished at Technicolor, with Skip Kimball as the colorist.

Personally, I don't see any similarity between any of these three shows, and certainly none between Stranger Things and The Crown. But that's just me.

 

[Brett Harrison]

Right you are Mike. Thanks for the info.

 

[Alex Sandman]

Interesting observation. I have definitely been impressed with the overall image quality of those Netflix shows you mention, but I haven't seen the common thread in color. Man, The Crown looks so outstanding to me. It's a really specific look but for that show it works perfectly.

 

[jordan levy]

so, i think this might be your issue.
every input from a tv has its own settings now, so just because you changed your settings to have no smooth motion and in cinema mode, when you change to another input choice, those are back to the default factory color settings.
AND, here's the big thing that had me going crazy for days, the newer tvs treat every single app, like netflix, as a separate input!
so this might not be what you are seeing, but when you have netflix opened up, then hit your tv settings, take off smooth motion, and change the color accordingly to taste.

other then that, i dont think any of those shows look the same at all, but like i said, you might be in VIVID mode on them all, or another default setting that is forcing the look a certain way.

 

[Mike Finegan]

Are you watching them in 4K HDR? Commonality might be deep color and dynamic range
Otherwise I agree very different
What about marco polo 4K HDR - do you see that as similar to stranger things (I would expect no in a big way

 

[Mark Phelan]

I like Chef's Table, they've done a great job with the color.

 

[Brett Harrison]

Yes absolutely, a degree of quality - each story has a very different setting and therefore a different look - perhaps 'look' isn't the right word for it but 'image quality'. I'm continually impressed with the quality of Netflix shows (though as Mike points out, Riverdale isn't Netflix-produced). It's like Netflix designates a certain 'stock' to shoot on, if you will.

 

[Björn Benckert]

Are those series done in Dolby vision? If so that should grant a very high picuture quality if you got a dolby vision certified TV. As I understand dolby vision change the settings to a HDR setting approved by dolby. Which I would think is better than all those other shitty settings the TVs comes with.

 

[M Most]

Yes absolutely, a degree of quality - each story has a very different setting and therefore a different look - perhaps 'look' isn't the right word for it but 'image quality'. I'm continually impressed with the quality of Netflix shows (though as Mike points out, Riverdale isn't Netflix-produced). It's like Netflix designates a certain 'stock' to shoot on, if you will.

All Netflix original productions are produced and posted in either UHD or 4K resolution, and the deliverable (an IMF package) is also 4K. Everything is sourced from that regardless of the resolution you're actually watching. That makes a difference.

 

[Marc Wielage]

The Crown is (I believe) finished in London. Riverdale is not a Netflix show (it is a CW show,at least in the US), and is, judging from the credits I see, finished at either Encore or Picture Shop. Stranger Things is finished at Technicolor, with Skip Kimball as the colorist. Personally, I don't see any similarity between any of these three shows, and certainly none between Stranger Things and The Crown. But that's just me.

I agree -- to me, they're all shot by different people using different crews, different lighting techniques, and different post houses. Way different.

If there's a smokier, more-diffused show on the air than Riverdale, I haven't seen it. hmy:

 

[Brett Harrison]

I agree -- to me, they're all shot by different people using different crews, different lighting techniques, and different post houses. Way different.

If there's a smokier, more-diffused show on the air than Riverdale, I haven't seen it. hmy:

I probably didn't communicate my point clearly enough in the OP, but what I'm referring to isn't a creative look that you'd put into the image to suit the story, but rather a quality of image that is consistent between looks.

Obviously there are a lot of things shot on Alexa and RED these days and it's often possible to pick what they are - even though there's "different crews, different lighting techniques, and different post houses".

As I say, I could be wrong but I'm noticing a jump in image quality recently and I know the sensors haven't changed, so I'm curious to know what might have changed on the post end.

 

[Ben Scott]

I feel don't there is any particular overriding look or aesthetic among Netflix originated shows, but it may well be they have improved their streaming quality a bit. Certainly compared to watching Amazon Prime TV, Netflix looks far better quality in the UK at least.

Clearly there is some continuity between the Marvel TV shows.

But Daredevil looked nothing like Sense8 looked nothing like Stranger Things looked nothing like Santa Clarita Diet looked nothing like House of Cards looked nothing like Marco Polo.

One of the things I keep hearing aside from them stating acquisition resolutions etc, is that people find Netflix are quite trusting and are letting filmmakers get on with it which might lead to people being able to put more into it.

 

[M Most]

Clearly there is some continuity between the Marvel TV shows..

Well, Jessica Jones and Luke Cage both had the same cinematographer and the same production designer, and all three (add Daredevil to the list) were graded by the same colorist (Tony D'Amore, at Encore). So yes, I would expect a good deal of visual continuity between them, something that Marvel likely did very intentionally, as they all share the same "universe", the same location, and to a degree, the same characters.

 

[Ben Scott]

Exactly. Although JJ and Luke Cage had a completely different aesthetic there is still continuity enough for those worlds to co-exist, as we'll see in Defenders. Interested to see how dark they go with Punisher. Iron Fist basically looks like Daredevil so far from what I've seen.

 

[Brett Harrison]

Perhaps it's to do with the encoding and mastering requirements, like some are suggesting: I'm watching it on a nice LG OLED, when I watch Netflix, and that monitor has much more dynamic range than TVs of the past.

 

[Scot Yount]

The Crown looks so outstanding to me. It's a really specific look but for that show it works perfectly.

I don't think most people would guess it, but The Crown is shot on Sony F55. Just an interesting aside.

 

[Michael Cioni]

Awesome observation. I'll tell you one thing:

I work on a number of Netflix shows and they are the stand-alone content owner that both encourages and enables projects to look better. While most episodic studios typically ask us for the bare minimum in terms of resolution, bit depth, dynamic range, and mastering formats, Netflix is insisting and enabling their content creators to achieve the highest quality possible. They give more time and money to make it better, which earns them the image results you're all recognizing.

But if you think about it, similar to the RED origin story, it typically takes (new) inventive groups to come along and ask, "Why are we automatically doing things this way? If a better result is available, why can't we strive for more?"

Hats off to all the OTTs for raising the bar. They will only continue to reap the rewards of having the highest qualitative standards.

m

 

[Brett Harrison]

Awesome observation. I'll tell you one thing:

I work on a number of Netflix shows and they are the stand-alone content owner that both encourages and enables projects to look better. While most episodic studios typically ask us for the bare minimum in terms of resolution, bit depth, dynamic range, and mastering formats, Netflix is insisting and enabling their content creators to achieve the highest quality possible. They give more time and money to make it better, which earns them the image results you're all recognizing.

But if you think about it, similar to the RED origin story, it typically takes (new) inventive groups to come along and ask, "Why are we automatically doing things this way? If a better result is available, why can't we strive for more?"

Hats off to all the OTTs for raising the bar. They will only continue to reap the rewards of having the highest qualitative standards.

m

Hi Michael, thanks for weighing in!

I had a feeling that Netflix were assisting when it comes to their content because honestly there's something else going on visually. They're tech savvy which leads me to think they have taken the reigns in some way when it comes to image processing.

 

[M Most]

I would point out that Netflix does a number of things in their own unique way, and one of the things they do that's unique (but, frankly, shouldn't be) is use a delivery format that is different from just about everyone else, at least in terms of original air elements (as opposed to archival). Netflix's delivery format is an IMF, while nearly all broadcast entities (and some of the OTT providers as well) specify legacy formats like XDCam and Prores. IMF is very similar to the DCP (it's based on it), and as such uses wavelet compression and is largely resolution independent. It allows for multiple language versions, as well as multiple editorial versions, to be extracted easily (even on the fly if needed) and as such is very flexible, something required in today's global market. The end result is that not only are they insistent on minimum production requirements, they are also arguably using the best delivery format currently available.

The reason I say "shouldn't be" is because what is today the IMF has been on the table for over 10 years now as a proposed delivery format for digital video. I sat at an HPA breakfast roundtable in 2007 with Annie Chang and some others who were proposing the "Digital Video Package" as a universal delivery format for broadcast. It never happened, and that market fractured to the point where nearly every network has its own unique and different delivery format, almost all of them based on legacy "baked" formats and legacy codecs. Netflix, always the disruptor (I won't even go into what they're doing for archival material.....) never bought into that and instead adopted a format designed for flexibility and the future.