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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Internal Focus Motor Thread

Björn Benckert said:
Dont take it the wrong way. I'm just saying the pads and smartöhones are hard to keep up with and all Im saying is that they will step right into the camera departments even at the most professional shoots aswell. As an example I was just about to by a 5k usd gps system for my boat from garmin but when looking into it it can not match a 30 usd ipad app there is simply so much tech that goes into these phones and even if the garmin would have 3g and internet it still would not keep up with 3d views etc.
I think a fool control kind of system can do so much more. Just plugging in gps cordinates in meta data, attatch snapshot of camera/lens setup, upload ref remes from each shots to server, do live meta data grading, write comment to takes etc etc. and yes Im pretty shure the will be able to pull quite decent focus with an ipad any day now. Its allready being done. And the market you aim for with optitron is as i understand not the guys that brings a full set of masterprimes and a couple of optimo zooms to set. No matter what you and I think most of the people that has the big budgets will shoot with cineglas that do not have internal focusing for some time forward.So as I see it your option is a really high end low budget option. And i have no critic what so ever for such option, I think its great but I think to really hit the homerun Something that is smartphone based has a good focusnob and uses the red internal stuff will be it. The only thing that could top that would be a wire version a red link box (preferable within the +1) that also had phono in... As that would allow to control focus via sound from the phone. As all wireless systems has one issue, for some reason they only work well wireless if they also have a wire option. :)

So dont take it the wrong way just get going with a iphon suctioncup knob and you will do great :)

Edit: another super valuble feature... log all the focus pulls So every shot if wanted has a keframe string that kan be usued when intergrating cg in post and also such feature would be very handy for clean passes with focus pulls if the focus pull from take a001c001 could be repeted in a001c002 and also name it repeat focus in meta data offcoure...
Click to expand...
You are mixing up tech and apps:
The reason google maps is the best navigation is because google put a billion dollars into the ground work that created it for years with google cars, satellites, army of S/W engineers. That is NOT going to happen with camera industry. Wrong example.
Also touch screen is the natural platform for it since everyone has a phone. That's all obvious stuff....
Now for the mission statement for the OptiTron2
1. We aimed to, and achieved BETTER (AF still optics) lens control than with a traditional remote FF setup with cinema lenses (all optical issues like breathing, zooming during recording aside since these are lens properties and we are looking at control level)
2. While maintaining the precise, repeatable, and last but not least-familiar interface our system is smaller, lighter, infinitely quicker and easier to set up and, last but not least- several times less expensive. Some if these traits like simplicity or low weight/bulk are indispensable and not possible with cinema lens setup- no matter what the price.
3. controlling motors for PL lenses is not our priority, although coming at some point as added value so our system is also more scalable and flexible.
I don't believe that these traits (precision, ergonomics, etc.) are possible with a phone. Correct me if I'm wrong.
If you think you can get satisfactory results with a phone by all means- use it. I would...
But again- please, please- don't call it competition to professional gear -it make no sense to any decent pro...
 
I think the phone touch interface can be useful for for setup and control of an advanced FF system that is rugged, has a good feel to the knob, and would still keep working if the phone is shut off. That is the perfect hybrid solution. Probably a bluetooth link to the hardware knob to set it's preferences and options. Ignoring the user interface possibilities of these touch devices is foolish.

If some fool adds a 1000 pulse / rev digital encoder with metal knob combined with some fairly simple micro-controller software in there to the foolcontrol type setup, there will be competition. Especially if the knob add on part costs <$500.
I'm thinking of making a wired non-smart phone controlled version for myself for my gimbal, as I don't have the money bags budget to by one and I need *some* kind of focus control for my Epic. The external preston motors are dinosaur stuff, I wouln't use that crap if it was given to me for free .... too much clutter.
 
Les I absolutely agree with you. By the time you arrive to that solution we'd go through 3 or 4 more generations of phones and you'll burn through a 100+K. Making an expensive , complicated accessory just so you can use an inexpensive phone with it. And relying on the mercy of some phone maker that could not care less about your accessory.
Not a good business plan IMO and I've done this for a while...
But go ahead, more power to you, I'd love to see it....
 
Hiya jacek

I think you have an amazing product but could do with some better marketing and sales touch points. I would love to help you out with this, PM me if you are interested.

Cheers

Suresh
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Les I absolutely agree with you. By the time you arrive to that solution we'd go through 3 or 4 more generations of phones and you'll burn through a 100+K. Making an expensive , complicated accessory just so you can use an inexpensive phone with it. And relying on the mercy of some phone maker that could not care less about your accessory.
Not a good business plan IMO and I've done this for a while...
But go ahead, more power to you, I'd love to see it....
Click to expand...

Jacek, I think what people are asking is if you would consider making your wireless optitron follow focus knob work with the thrid party REDLINK devices like the one that Mark from off hollwywood is coming up with. This will get user the best of all world...they could use your optitron for focus and use an app like fool Control to do other things at the same time! Plus your wireless receiver requires power through a dtap while the upcoming hotbox will be small and power from a very small battery which makes it more conducive for gimbal work. Just a thought....and frankly suresh is right.. While your product is great, your marketing is pretty bad...I know it's not the first time you hear it ;)
(And many of use have offered you help in marketing it)
 
Maz Mawlawi said:
Jacek, I think what people are asking is if you would consider making your wireless optitron follow focus knob work with the thrid party REDLINK devices like the one that Mark from off hollwywood is coming up with. This will get user the best of all world...they could use your optitron for focus and use an app like fool Control to do other things at the same time! Plus your wireless receiver requires power through a dtap while the upcoming hotbox will be small and power from a very small battery which makes it more conducive for gimbal work. Just a thought....and frankly suresh is right.. While your product is great, your marketing is pretty bad...I know it's not the first time you hear it ;)
(And many of use have offered you help in marketing it)
Click to expand...
Maz it's not as easy as you think:
If I don't have full control over components I can't guarantee performance. What if these third party devices have latency (I know WiFi does) and drop signal frequently? I don't want customers blaming OptiTron because a peripheral is weak. Look at redmote. Professional tools require full control of (properly spec'd) components and I can only get that when I use our components. I'm not saying it will cause problems for sure but I can't afford risking my product reputation.
As far as marketing- no we don't use consumer marketing techniques. But, and I probably should not be saying this- if tripling staff and still not being able to keep up-on solid back order for 2 years is not a good marketing- I want to see what is haha...
Of couse the product info and the revamped web site are coming very soon...
 
Hi Jacek, I have a few more practical questions. How long is the calibration time between lens changes? - never mind I just saw the video that says 10-15 seconds - I assume that si the same calibration time on the RED
Would this work with my 300-800 Sigma
Also, can you PM me the price.
 
In the latest video about the wireless config, you mentioned that another video is coming about the performance. One thing I'm wondering about is the noise. When you use autofocus on the camera it's some times quite noisy and if you shoot with actors I'm wondering how much this will contaminate the sound? When is the next video ready?
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Maz it's not as easy as you think:
If I don't have full control over components I can't guarantee performance. What if these third party devices have latency (I know WiFi does) and drop signal frequently? I don't want customers blaming OptiTron because a peripheral is weak. Look at redmote. Professional tools require full control of (properly spec'd) components and I can only get that when I use our components. I'm not saying it will cause problems for sure but I can't afford risking my product reputation.
As far as marketing- no we don't use consumer marketing techniques. But, and I probably should not be saying this- if tripling staff and still not being able to keep up-on solid back order for 2 years is not a good marketing- I want to see what is haha...
Of couse the product info and the revamped web site are coming very soon...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. I wasnt trying to say it's easy and I see the point you are making. I was jus wondering if it was possible. I guess we were hoping to use some kind of knob/focus wheel device as opposed to the touch screen on an iPad.....but who knows...we may get pleasantly surprised with a touch interface...it's a wait a see and this point. Red may also come up with their 2 axis controller and solve the problem.
It looks like you have your hands full and really don't need to get any more new customers or new orders. That's awesome and a good place to be at! :)
 
Maz Mawlawi said:
Thanks for the response. I wasnt trying to say it's easy and I see the point you are making. I was jus wondering if it was possible. I guess we were hoping to use some kind of knob/focus wheel device as opposed to the touch screen on an iPad.....but who knows...we may get pleasantly surprised with a touch interface...it's a wait a see and this point. Red may also come up with their 2 axis controller and solve the problem.
It looks like you have your hands full and really don't need to get any more new customers or new orders. That's awesome and a good place to be at! :)
Click to expand...
Thank you Maz!!!,
We will not be making 3 party accessories for 3rd party accessories- it just makes no sense. Too much dependability on other companies that may or may not come through. In the mean time it's money out of our pocket- that's what I'm saying. I hope it's clear now.
Also we WELCOME new customers- we hear from them every day. The fact that we do not subscribe to hype marketing does not mean we don't do good business- that's what I'm saying. I hope that's clear now as well....
 
Christoffer Glans said:
In the latest video about the wireless config, you mentioned that another video is coming about the performance. One thing I'm wondering about is the noise. When you use autofocus on the camera it's some times quite noisy and if you shoot with actors I'm wondering how much this will contaminate the sound? When is the next video ready?
Click to expand...
Some lenses are a bit noisy- mostly 3rd party lenses- older ones.
Canon L lenses are mostly super quiet- hence the ultra sonic motor designation...it means that the motors operate above audible frequencies....
 
Les Dittert said:
I think the phone touch interface can be useful for for setup and control of an advanced FF system that is rugged, has a good feel to the knob, and would still keep working if the phone is shut off. That is the perfect hybrid solution. Probably a bluetooth link to the hardware knob to set it's preferences and options. Ignoring the user interface possibilities of these touch devices is foolish.

If some fool adds a 1000 pulse / rev digital encoder with metal knob combined with some fairly simple micro-controller software in there to the foolcontrol type setup, there will be competition. Especially if the knob add on part costs <$500.
I'm thinking of making a wired non-smart phone controlled version for myself for my gimbal, as I don't have the money bags budget to by one and I need *some* kind of focus control for my Epic. The external preston motors are dinosaur stuff, I wouln't use that crap if it was given to me for free .... too much clutter.
Click to expand...

Les, a simple, one wire thumb wheel for focus would be a home run at this point. Please let me know if you build one, I would be more than happy to pay way too much for it :) it's a no brainer!
 
Talk is cheap guys- try to actually do it and, 100k or so later, you will come to the same conclusions we did and just do it right. I'm sharing here tens of thousands in research and experience but, if you don't want to listen, by all means, sink the cash, after all, it's yours to sink ;-)
 
Jeffery Anderson said:
anyone know anything about the new RedRock Micro follow focus black - working with FoolControl or Red cameras in general - to control Lenses internal motors?
Click to expand...
Don't hold your breath on this...it's been in the works and "coming soon" for over three years now...
On the other hand you may want to look at the Hotlink http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-HOT-TAP-HOTBOX-R-S-WIFI-for-RED-DSMC-cameras device with ios foolcontrol....looks like a winning combination....
 
Maz Mawlawi said:
Don't hold your breath on this...it's been in the works and "coming soon" for over three years now...
On the other hand you may want to look at the Hotlink http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-HOT-TAP-HOTBOX-R-S-WIFI-for-RED-DSMC-cameras device with ios foolcontrol....looks like a winning combination....
Click to expand...

Will you be able to control the internal motors with another remote follow focus device?

Would Red THC be the only option with the Hotlink for remote follow focus control?
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Talk is cheap guys- try to actually do it and, 100k or so later, you will come to the same conclusions we did and just do it right. I'm sharing here tens of thousands in research and experience but, if you don't want to listen, by all means, sink the cash, after all, it's yours to sink ;-)
Click to expand...

Pardon me Jacek ,

But what is so god damned hard about doing a low cost plastic single knob WIRED focus control knob that talks to the serial port of the Red, using the redlink feature set ?
A Freaking $10 Atmel micro and a pot would be it. Cost of goods would be $75 max, the Lemo connector being the dominating cost !

I'm currently not in the hardware for sale end of the business but I have made plenty of custom hardware in the past for one-off projects such as motion picture film scanners and motion control units.
Don't keep trying to tell the artists and non tech people here stories of how hard it is it make this or that. Some people just want a cheap little plastic box with a knob or linear pot on it and a serial cable hanging out of it to plug into the cam. The user would be happy to tie wrap it to the grip of the rig or gimbal and be delighted because now they can at least move the focus motor in a very basic way that they could not before. The wire would be so light and flexible ( like wires to your stereo ear buds ) that it would have zero effect on a gimbal.
I'll probably do the project for myself ( hand wired no pc board ) , as I have a Helix gimbal on order. Maybe if 10 dudes want it also, I can make a limited run of it, for say $250 or so.
Not for $100 million movie productions. But most Reds shoot little shit indy productions and other low budget stuff anyhow, as most Red users will sheepishly admit.
If you think this is $100K to get rolling you definitely need to take a second look at your engineering resources talent.

Sorry if I'm a bit brash here , I'm not in a particularly P.C. mood right now.
 
Jeffery Anderson said:
Will you be able to control the internal motors with another remote follow focus device?

Would Red THC be the only option with the Hotlink for remote follow focus control?
Click to expand...

The THC does not talk over WiFi, so it will not be compatible with the Hotlink. The REDLINK BRIDGE has two radios in it, a WiFi radio (for talking to iOS, android, PC, Mac applications) and a dedicated radio for talking to the THC.

That being said, there is nothing that would prohibit someone from creating a hand controller that does talk over WiFi using the RCP protocol that could be used with the REDLINK BRIDGE or any other third party solution.
 
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