The industry has finally engaged...

[Eric Lange]

I love this stuff. So much. Apparently we have finally got the attention of "the big guys". Now the real fun begins. And the customer wins.

Upgrades. Prices that consumers can swallow. Japan, China and Germany vs. the USA. Love it.

We fully recognize that we are the underdogs in this fight. Just the way we want it.

Pick your partner wisely.

Jim

"What's taking so long"...?

Well at REDINCI CODE labs, we have run out of tin foil… we just had a delivery this morning and we all have at our shiny new “hats” firmly scrumpled onto our heads now.

So as you say there are 3 new RED members…

I’m not going to speculate…

BUT the “pick your partners wisely…”

Could these be development partners?

i.e. 3rd party dev? Or [Dev3].

Things are looking like Mac based development tools [Mac OSX Lion] AND IOS 5 so that you can “get in touch” with your “inner” Scarlet.

So I think there is 3rd party development for some sort of Mac based mobile operating system. So they are getting the ‘Libraries together”, people keep hinting at a “wedding”.

Hint.. hint.. hint..

Maybe it’s a case that JIM is the one who picks his US partners wisely. Approved 3rd part development, then through healthy competition amazing tools are developed; "the customer wins in the end".

There seem to be a lot of Scarlet casualties, sanity being first...

Eric

P.s. Everybody wins, but I wonder what (specifically) are the rewards?

 

[Eric Lange]

Ryan,
Jim's exclamations about Scarlet are totally appropriate and accurate. It is illogical what some people are conjecturing. Come Jan1, Epic is a $35,000 body. That is nearly 5.5x more expensive than the last ballpark figure for Scarlet. So when Jim says, "biggest announcement"... some people hear spec improvements (over the last known specs) where as Jim, I believe, is discussing IMPACT. Whether Scarlet costs $7K or $15K, there will not be another camera close to it's capability at that price point. Star Wars 1 was filmed on 2/3 chip cameras that cost $150,000+. Scarlet, in every way is better than that camera. That is ENORMOUS value. Jim gets discouraged because the guesses are unreasonable and illogical. The real and actual Scarlet is a feat of design, manufacturing and specs and should be regarded as such. It will blow people away and it will be the biggest Red announcement, not for what people hope that it is but for what it actually is, the best camera in the world other than Epic but at 1/5 the price (or 1/4 or whatever it ends up being on the 3rd).





That's my take anyway.

100% with you there. It’s NOT ALL ABOUT SCARLET!

Saying here you can buy your camera now that you have been waiting three years for is not the “BIGGEST” announcement of RED's history.

And exactly as you make out it’s not ALL about hardware. “Wow we never saw THAT combination of fsp/$ and K…!?”..(mild snarkyness).

It seems that software is the MOST important key to a camera’s survival in the market place…

Indeed!

Eric

I'm also wondering about Adobe....???? RED +ADOBE + Mac? ++ more WE can do??? putting some of the pieces togther it would be S-3d, with Adobe tools, Scarlet S-3d all on Mac... at least?



SOOO maybe as Jim says the “Industry has finally engaged” i.e. RED has been approached by Apple and Adobe… so three great US companies… working together???

That would be BIG right?

Am I missing something?

Maybe its three GREAT companies working together... So Jim says..."Three of a kind beats a pair"..."we're the underdog in all this" I.e. RED is smaller than Adobe or Apple (or whoever they have teamed up with). Two US giants and one smallish giant all working together. So its a very BIG 3rd party development/cooperative development announcement of some kind...and may be S-3d related.

Maybe I have one of the partners wrong. There are three OTHERS?

So who is Canon partnering with who is the "pair" of three beats a pair.

Happy Halloween...

So it’s a NEW PARTNERSHIP.. RED+ APPLE + ADOBE + unspecified cinema group/S-3d provider?

Or new partnership RED + ((us) partner 1) + ((us) partner 2) + ((us) partner 3) + ((us)partner 4)?

I.e. three “others” that Jim keeps going on about…

That would be the biggest announcement of RED history so then what does China, Germany and Japan have to put up against all of that? This is sort (almost) Allied vs Axis powers kind of situation…

That has to be what he’s going on about (the JIM that is).

That would be impossible to keep quiet, no?

I also suspect that RED has licenced its know how to the three others too. Its a partnership (endless hints) Greame's "baby". Its good to share..?

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

I'm betting that 3 of a kind beats 2 pair.

Jim

Cryptic bastard

Mike

 

[Steve Wake]

I'm betting that 3 of a kind beats 2 pair.

Jim

I really don't get the confusion around this one. Clues have a context, and given that, the meaning is clear.

The thread is about the competition engaging the 4K battle. "2 pair" is a way of referring to the two pairs of pixels the Canon camera bins to meet the rumored spec: 4K capture, 2K recording.

In that context, "3 of a kind" is 3K, RED's newest offering. Though it falls short of 4K, it still beats 2 pair.

Scarlet 3K REDCODE RAW capture beats Canon 4K-->2K recorded in whatever RGB codec they are using. (Of course this is apples and oranges since the Canon camera will surely be APS or FF35). Canon may have a 4K recording option in the works, and it seems they would, but maybe that comes later - as a $10+K-ish frankenbox, or a completely different camera.

 

[Eric Lange]

I really don't get the confusion around this one. Clues have a context, and given that, the meaning is clear.

The thread is about the competition engaging the 4K battle. "2 pair" is a way of referring to the two pairs of pixels the Canon camera bins to meet the rumored spec: 4K capture, 2K recording.

In that context, "3 of a kind" is 3K, RED's newest offering. Though it falls short of 4K, it still beats 2 pair.

Scarlet 3K REDCODE RAW capture beats Canon 4K-->2K recorded in whatever RGB codec they are using. (Of course this is apples and oranges since the Canon camera will surely be APS or FF35). Canon may have a 4K recording option in the works, and it seems they would, but maybe that comes later - as a $10+K-ish frankenbox, or a completely different camera.

Steve you are really good at this!

What you say seems crystal clear.

BUT what’s going on that makes Nov 3rd ridiculously “historic”…?

I think RED will pull the dust sheet off a "recording device"....

You can’t introduce REDRAY in a vacuum you need Major partners to pull that one off but I wonder if there is something else too?

 

[James Brundige]

Should I be pissed off because I bought my Epic for almost 60k

I suspect Epic value will hold as the high end entry. Depends on how good Epic-S is. I'm hoping there will be real Epic - S information on Thursday, because many of us will be considering Scarlet as a backup / B camera body for Epic X/M. Epic S would be better in that role, being able to use the same lenses, but that depends on relative price and availability.

 

[James Brundige]

So if todays rumors about the Canon camera is corret, Scarlet will have hard time competing with it:

• Price: sub $15,000 – possible down to $10,000
• Image quality: Alexa good
• SDI outs
• XLRs (audio)
• Piviting & detachable monitors and grips
• PL mount and EF mount options
• Resolution – 4k capture, 2k recording

Key difference is recording codec. Red is light years ahead with Redcode RAW. Canon's H264 completely sucks, so there will be an improvement to that, but I doubt it will be RAW. I suspect they will use simultaneous dual CF cards for recording - post nightmare. Removeable drives would be better, but Red still way ahead on that score too.

The thing that Red gets that the others have missed is the sheer processing power of their cameras - enough to handle Redcode RAW.

 

[Steve Wake]

...
When Jim says "more expensive," he knows that we know that "around $6K" is the last stated price. He knows that $8K for that same device is "more expensive".... I'm still guessing between $7K and $8K.

And since RED always provides more with a price increase, it's coming with something that makes it more professional than it was before. My vote and best guess is HD-SDI out.

 

[Mohamed Younis]

The worldwide support network for RED products is growing... We now have an entire dedicated team working with the best service facilities across the globe to open up service centers. 2012 will be a big year for all our foreign customers seeking for more immediate support.

THANK YOU

 

[James Brundige]

Eric,

You make me dizzy. You said you agreed with my post but I think you misunderstood. I think Nov. 3 is all about Scarlet. A simple 3K, 2/3 sensor, fixed lens camera that is sub $10K with Red RAW, HDRx, touch focus on a 5" LCD, REDMOTE, SSD.... that is a game changer, a revolution. I take Jim's announcements at face value and you're trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip... there are no partnerships to announce, no hidden agenda or secret device. And after 3 years, Scarlet is finally shipping and it will have enough impact on it's own. That's what I think.

When Jim says "more expensive," he knows that we know that "around $6K" is the last stated price. He knows that $8K for that same device is "more expensive".... I'm still guessing between $7K and $8K.

This feels like a good guess about Scarlet, but don't forget the roadmap has some big surprises. I suspect Scarlet is not the back-pocket bazooka we have heard about.

Rampant speculation: (not my fault, Jim, you sowed all these seeds)

3 D integration, along with 3D laser projector. Forget the glasses.
Light field recording - be able to adjust focus in post - the Ultimate RAW.
Something about Red Ray - bringing 4K into the home.

 

[Steve Wake]

Canon's pixel binning strategy should have one positive payoff: high iso performance. Big pixels in a 4K S35 or FF35 sensor, plus 2x2 binning should be pretty amazing in low light. I think LaForet shooting test footage and the graphic on Canon Rumours are clues as to what they'll show off on Nov. 3

Just a hint to RED as to what you might want to show - not that you haven't read the same clues, just sayin'

Then again, horses for courses...

Maybe the better contest will be Dragons vs. Canons.

 

[Lee Brandt]

Key difference is recording codec. Red is light years ahead with Redcode RAW. Canon's H264 completely sucks, so there will be an improvement to that, but I doubt it will be RAW. I suspect they will use simultaneous dual CF cards for recording - post nightmare. Removeable drives would be better, but Red still way ahead on that score too.

The thing that Red gets that the others have missed is the sheer processing power of their cameras - enough to handle Redcode RAW.

Nope. SDI output will allow them to use an external recorder for uncompressed 444 images. The downside is that they have to acquire an external recorder which costs lots of $

 

[Zeb B]

Nope. SDI output will allow them to use an external recorder for uncompressed 444 images. The downside is that they have to acquire an external recorder which costs lots of $

. . . enter camera left . . . Samari

 

[Carter Cammack]

You guys are going to have a stroke trying to figure out what Jim is NOT saying.

Stop editing and start acting. Imagine how trapped he is. He is SO stoked about his new product line, but can't say anything about it yet. This is his driving passion. It's days away. He probably hasn't slept in a week. He's living on Jarred's Red Bull. The team keeps bringing him AMAZING new accessories and features that will change the way we do film. He has the future in his hands.

"Ok. Post something. But don't give any specifics about the new stuff, OK."

How would you act this scene?

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

You guys are going to have a stroke trying to figure out what Jim is NOT saying.

Stop editing and start acting. Imagine how trapped he is. He is SO stoked about his new product line, but can't say anything about it yet. This is his driving passion. It's days away. He probably hasn't slept in a week. He's living on Jarred's Red Bull. The team keeps bringing him AMAZING new accessories and features that will change the way we do film. He has the future in his hands.

"Ok. Post something. But don't give any specifics about the new stuff, OK."

How would you act this scene?

Don't we all love wondering what's in the gift box before opening it up? Its more than half the fun! Why would Jim be feeling trapped about our excitement. I think he's rightly concerned about lofty expectations, but otherwise, the excitement is AWESOME!!! Which company in the camera industry ever evoked this kind of excitement?

I know I'm into the Epic X, but I'm still stoked about the Scarlet (or Epic S, or Epic One or perhaps, just plain EPIC!)

 

[Eric Lange]

Eric,

You make me dizzy. You said you agreed with my post but I think you misunderstood. I think Nov. 3 is all about Scarlet. A simple 3K, 2/3 sensor, fixed lens camera that is sub $10K with Red RAW, HDRx, touch focus on a 5" LCD, REDMOTE, SSD.... that is a game changer, a revolution. I take Jim's announcements at face value and you're trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip... there are no partnerships to announce, no hidden agenda or secret device. And after 3 years, Scarlet is finally shipping and it will have enough impact on it's own. That's what I think.

When Jim says "more expensive," he knows that we know that "around $6K" is the last stated price. He knows that $8K for that same device is "more expensive".... I'm still guessing between $7K and $8K.

He, he he….

You may be right.

It’s funny speaking of squeezing “blood out of a turnip” I have a terrible migraine and that’s exactly what it feels like that I have a huge c-clamp tightened onto my head, squeezing the blood out of my “turnip”. Probably also my wife beating me over the head mercilessly with a frying pan for some of the posts I made. She has an excellent analytical mind and as an “outsider”…as such, definitely picked up on the fact that releasing a 3k camera that people have been waiting for a few years can’t possibly be the biggest announcement in RED history i.e. a more objective view from someone that is not over focused on a single “device”. You see I think Jim always claims “small” or is “small’ but it’s pretty clear he wants BIG! If you are going to swim with the other big sharks then you have to be a big shark. Jim is not about being a small minnow that the big sharks are not really noticing. The good wife also noted a disturbing correlation between Justin Bieber and REDUSER (that I won’t expand on).

Obviously I must desist my REDUSER activities from pain and sanity…and speaking of turnips…

Blackadder is so awesome

“my dream turnip”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD2iYSKHHzo

Ta.

Eric

 

[Benjamin Bixby]

Jim, we've been hearing about this camera for years. Expectations were set. And then...


There should be little confusion why people's heads start spinning...

Hey Ryan,

Shouldn't you put that into perspective when pulling quotes and what they reference? Scarlet's original specs were amazing, and still are, compared to what was and what is currently on the market (personally, RAW is the single biggest feature for me, it totally sells me on RED... the resolution, HDRx, frame rates, etc, etc don't hurt either . And even then, Scarlet got more features and more robust as time went on (a good thing) and so the price has also increased (a not so good thing to some). Not surprised by that.

I think you're leaving out some very important context in your consideration... you need to look at the timeline for those quotes, what they reference (in terms of Scarlet's features/price) and then also what others ended up guesstimating.

Either way I pumped to see what RED and Canon puts out... because either way, it is good for us (customers).

 

[James Brundige]

You guys are going to have a stroke trying to figure out what Jim is NOT saying.

Stop editing and start acting. Imagine how trapped he is. He is SO stoked about his new product line, but can't say anything about it yet. This is his driving passion. It's days away. He probably hasn't slept in a week. He's living on Jarred's Red Bull. The team keeps bringing him AMAZING new accessories and features that will change the way we do film. He has the future in his hands.

"Ok. Post something. But don't give any specifics about the new stuff, OK."

How would you act this scene?

Jim is not trapped; he's having fun, which is all we're doing here. He throws out these bones, and we play with them while we wait for the products to appear. And when they do appear, they are amazing. His only caution is the budget minded buyers who fantasize what Red can deliver for under $10 K. When you start attaching an imaginary price tag to the incredible technical innovations going on at Red, it can get a little weird, which is what I believe he is trying to head off in the Expectations thread.

 

[Julien Deka]

Canon is a great company and I'm quite sure that whatever they offer will be a terrific buy. And as soon as you buy, they will offer another one in 6 months that you will want to buy again... and again.

I though it was more: as soon as you buy a canon, you want to buy a Red... and then another one...

 

[Lee Brandt]

Hey Jim, I bet you four of a kind beats three of a kind.