The Hobbit at 48fps...

[Scott Crawley]

Not particularly. Since the sense of smell is the most powerful of all senses, it has the most potential, for better and worse. It reminds me of the time I filmed five operations a couple years ago. Now I'm not squeamish with the goings on of the operating room, but if there is one thing that will send most folks over the edge are the smells of an OR. My assistant couldn't even go into the room, much less sit outside and listen to the bone saw, et al. That was when my R1 was "christened" a RED camera from overspray.

As with all aspects of life, just because we can, doesn't mean we should.

I love the smell of the OR in the morning... Have you tried the Morgue? Fresher is better. ;-) I actually like the smell of cautery, it is the realization that you have someone else's searing flesh in your nose that makes it disgusting. Otherwise it just reminds me of a hot hair dryer. Maybe I'm weird.

It is indeed a powerful sense and manipulating it would require a deft hand and sensitive nose.

I can picture it now, to launch the new technology the Weinsteins present Chicken Shit: The Smell Of Fear. A new comedy by Quintin Tarrentino. How's that for a mental image?

Be bold, don't fear powerful tools.

 

[Steven Caesare]

i would not go see a three hour movie just to see 48fps. unless, how did you put it, you simply want $$$ vacuumed out of your wallet for the 'must-see' tech.

Whereas dropping $14-20 for a chance to experience a ground-breaking art presentation is something I'll do.

I too, am not terribly interested in the story... but I'm very interested in seeing a director present something in an artistically new and unique way. And for the cost of an appetizer and a beer? Why not?

-sc

 

[Justin Kirchhoff]

everybody is talking about this sequence at the beginning. that supports the theory that it's your eye/brain getting used to it, don't you think? everybody is remembering something strange at the beginning, but okay/cool by the end... no?

I may be the only one that didn't notice what most of you are talking about. I have a big "What?" in my post about it.

 

[mikeburton]

Since we are discussing multiple senses and options for theaters / filmmakers in this crazy future of ours I noticed that the theatre that I saw the Hobbit in had seats with electronics built into the base for motion ride like effects in the future. Which brings up an interesting point, of options when you see movies. Are you going to see the Motion controlled film w/HFR 3D in IMAX, Standard 24p IMAX 3D, standard 3D HFR or ancient old 2D? Choices are steadily increasing with the theatre experience and won't be limited to theme parks for long. I can imagine that the Ariel scenes would be pretty interesting with these kind of motion controlled / synced seats. But the question is how many theaters are actually going to be able to implement this feature?

 

[Scott Crawley]

Since we are discussing multiple senses and options for theaters / filmmakers in this crazy future of ours I noticed that the theatre that I saw the Hobbit in had seats with electronics built into the base for motion ride like effects in the future. Which brings up an interesting point, of options when you see movies. Are you going to see the Motion controlled film w/HFR 3D in IMAX, Standard 24p IMAX 3D, standard 3D HFR or ancient old 2D? Choices are steadily increasing with the theatre experience and won't be limited to theme parks for long. I can imagine that the Ariel scenes would be pretty interesting with these kind of motion controlled / synced seats. But the question is how many theaters are actually going to be able to implement this feature?

In Massachusetts there is a smallish retail furniture chain with two or three such IMAX theaters. If a furniture store can do it, why not a movie theater?

Oh yeah, it is because a furniture store actually makes a profit... that's why. Yet even after raking in a reported $84 million over the weekend the theaters will still cry poverty. Is that not evidence that something is foul and/or broken?

correction: They have 3 IMAX screens and one of them offers motion. http://www.jordans.com/Attractions/MOM.aspx

 

[Mark Phelan]

AMC just renovated the Phipps Plaza theater here in town and now every seat is a leather reclining lazy boy.

 

[paulherrin]

Since we are discussing multiple senses and options for theaters / filmmakers in this crazy future of ours I noticed that the theatre that I saw the Hobbit in had seats with electronics built into the base for motion ride like effects in the future. Which brings up an interesting point, of options when you see movies. Are you going to see the Motion controlled film w/HFR 3D in IMAX, Standard 24p IMAX 3D, standard 3D HFR or ancient old 2D? Choices are steadily increasing with the theatre experience and won't be limited to theme parks for long. I can imagine that the Ariel scenes would be pretty interesting with these kind of motion controlled / synced seats. But the question is how many theaters are actually going to be able to implement this feature?

what you think the 3-axis motion sensor is for?

[obviously not for 'traditional' drama work, but a different form that tends towards experience and spectacle]

AMC just renovated the Phipps Plaza theater here in town and now every seat is a leather reclining lazy boy.

so awesome. how bout massage chairs

 

[Jaymes Poudrier]

I saw the HFR showing (sans 3D) and have no idea what anyone is complaining about. The only difference I noticed was less motion blur during high speed movements and maybe a little bit more jerkyness in the camera movements. I didn't hear nay complaints of nausea or vomitting after the showing. I think this boils down to some people having issues and everyone else being a hypochondriac.

 

[Mark Phelan]

how bout massage chairs

Then they'd have to sync the sine wave of each vibrating chair to the camera and take that into account during filming. I'm sure they're working on that even as we speak. Sinusoidalvision.

 

[paulherrin]

Then they'd have to sync the sine wave of each vibrating chair to the camera and take that into account during filming. I'm sure they're working on that even as we speak. Sinusoidalvision.

dude that would be awesome... i guess if there's a subwoofer in the seat that could kinda act the same way

i'm working on some relatively lo-tech/natural outdoor theatre plans here in the hills (kinda cool to have a brother around who's an architect), but if i ever find some money i'd love to get into the really high-tech space station stuff

 

[Mark Phelan]

dude that would be awesome... i guess if there's a subwoofer in the seat that could kinda act the same way

Actually already did that, sort of, with Sensaround in Earthquake. Just stick a huge subwoofer in the theater and there ya go. Was kind of fun, but seeing it in reruns reminds me that home viewing isn't all it's cracked up to be.

 

[Bob Gundu]

I'm usually trying to avoid sitting next people that smell like Orcs in the theater. Maybe I should give in and actually pay extra for privilege of instant smellovision.

 

[paulherrin]

I'm usually trying to avoid sitting next people that smell like Orcs in the theater. Maybe I should give in and actually pay extra for privilege of instant smellovision.

i sat next to an elf. she smelt lovely

 

[Michael AvMen]

Great Little Article on the HFR stuff on www.prolost.com . I was wondering why I associated watching this film with watching the old BBC Chronicles of Narnia Tv show.. Well 48fps is just about what Video is in the UK 50fps... I really dont think the HFR feature are the Future, its a Good Option but I wont be watching the films like that again, I was not blown away by it, and it was a bit distracting. my opinion Though, and to each his own...

 

[paulherrin]

Great Little Article on the HFR stuff on www.prolost.com . I was wondering why I associated watching this film with watching the old BBC Chronicles of Narnia Tv show.. Well 48fps is just about what Video is in the UK 50fps... I really dont think the HFR feature are the Future, its a Good Option but I wont be watching the films like that again, I was not blown away by it, and it was a bit distracting. my opinion Though, and to each his own...

i like what stu has to say. we just have different philosophies on this matter. which is cool. he's essentially talking about polishing into diamonds. i'm into letting a diamond be a diamond.

visual storytelling art (filmmaking) IS about what you include (reveal) AND what you take away (obscure). the relationship of light to shadow. chiaroscuro...

but, i'm all for a rothko exhibition. let's all go sit for 3 hours and look at a black screen. actually, it would probably be a provoking installation... maybe i'll do it just to wake you guys up.

james turrell does some fascinating work with light... if you haven't looked into him, do it.

and just to bring it full circle...

 

[David Rasberry]

This sums it up well.

The Science of High Frame Rates, Or: Why 'The Hobbit' Looks Bad At 48 FPS
http://movieline.com/2012/12/14/hobbit-high-frame-rate-science-48-frames-per-second/

One could also interpret the science as favoring higher frame rates, especially for 3D. My worst 3D experiences have been fast action scenes at 24f. The motion becomes so broken and disjointed that it greatly increases eye and brain strain. If it is true that we process what we see at around 40fps, then presenting the information faster allows the brain to form a more coherent sequential experience where the slower rate forces reinterpretation of what the brain has already processed when presented with the next image.

 

[paulherrin]

One could also interpret the science as favoring higher frame rates, especially for 3D. My worst 3D experiences have been fast action scenes at 24f. The motion becomes so broken and disjointed that it greatly increases eye and brain strain. If it is true that we process what we see at around 40fps, then presenting the information faster allows the brain to form a more coherent sequential experience where the slower rate forces reinterpretation of what the brain has already processed when presented with the next image.

did you read the article he linked to? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/can-science-explain-the-s_b_675107.html
published study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10677593

i'm not really skeptical that he read either of these.

okay, but here's the deal... our brain wave frequencies are constantly changing. this is why i'm a fan of variable framerates. the ultimate would be to have the framerate frequency matched up with the brainwaves of the audience. in dreams we move through different levels of consciousness (alpha, delta, gamma, etc) and i'm sure it happens within a story experience. i'm going to start some research on this in the new year with some fancy equipment

hertz (Hz), cycles per second (cps), frames per second (fps)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_oscillation

part of the reason some people may like 24fps so much is because it takes us into a somewhat more relaxed realm of thought (beta-state), just like prayer and meditation, though usually not that far down. i'm not saying we shouldn't have 24 frames anymore, but i would like to see variable framerates. even when we dream, we're not exclusively in one state. there are times in dreams, especially lucid dreams, where we move into higher states rather than lower. i believe a film is already a journey through these states of consciousness, existence, and experience... it makes sense to use this technology in accordance with that. that all needs to be tested, it could just end up putting everyone into hibernation or something. or waking the robots up.

 

[Tom Lowe]

I liked the 48fps well enough. I think the shutter angle is what threw me off a few times.

Will be interesting to see Cameron's 60fps.

 

[Joseph Seuferling]

I saw the HFR 3D Hobbit last night and thought it was great! Didn't notice the problems others have mentioned, except for the blown-out highlights and out-of-focus of a couple of shots.

 

[Häakon]

Great Little Article on the HFR stuff on www.prolost.com .

What a great summation, thanks for sharing that. It was nice to hear some expanded thought on the subject beyond just "well it's what we've been used to seeing forever so that's why we like it." Obviously this subject is a matter of opinion and no one is more "right" or "wrong" than another. But especially after having seen the Hobbit in 48p, I do agree with him very strongly that higher framerate is just not something I'm interested in for narrative work.