The Gentleman's Underwater Bubble Blower Thread

[Peter Lightowler]

PX can also accomodate all three Red monitor options Tom, so yep your RT7 will work nicely on that rig.

 

[Daan Pol]

Hey Guys,

Working on something cool, a camera mount in our sub:

We could easily fit a ton of gear in and on it:

And we can go really fast underwater too :

We are currently developing an easy mount for a big camera rig. Right now we are thinking of just a simple rail system that allows you to switch sides easy:

And easy stowage:

I found out that the usable field of view I get this way is pretty darn good. Anybody interested in a rig like this? It could allow for insane shots, keeping up with schools of dolphins or whales!

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

That is very cool, Dan. Is that two Nikonos lenses on the front?

 

[Daan Pol]

That is very cool, Dan. Is that two Nikonos lenses on the front?

Yep! I modelled Pawel Achtel's Stereo 3D iMax rig into the boat:

https://24x7.com.au/3Deep/index.htm

Basically any decent sized RED underwater housing will fit. If you want I can fit your housing on there too .

Actually we can fit a huge amount of powered storage in the boat:

That allows you to do all kinds of super interesting things!

Take your Video ROV with you:

Gimballed scanners/cameras:

Seabed Research:

As a matter of fact we are working on a google street-view version as well!

The boats onboard power system is great for powering these things. We bring 4 of these with us, totalling 16kWh of power. It is native 150vDC that can be converted to any voltage. We have onboard 12vDC and 24vDC systems you can just plug into. We even run a PC in the boat.

We could even do a complete control cockpit onboard so you take the camera/rov/instrument operator with you instead of him/her being tethered to a surface vessel.

Think long range underwater exploration.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Daan, what breathing systems are you using for the operators?

 

[Daan Pol]

Hi Tom,

Basically anything you want. We have mounted 2x 10 liter (2x 85cf) aluminium tanks with longhose, per person:

The seat allows for a 2x 12 liter (2x 100cf) back-mounted unit as wel or a front/back mounted re-breather like the LAR series. The best configuration we found is a side-slung 7 liter alu bottle while using the onboard air. I designed the cockpits specifically so I could get in and out easily with all my gear on. I am 6'4 300 lbs .

We discovered that because you don't have to swim your air supply will last you a LOT longer than if you go out swimming. You don't even have to spend any thoughts on staying at deco depth because we can set the boat to lock to a certain depth. The cockpits are designed in such a way that the water flows over your head instead of it putting pressure on your face. It's like a convertible car basically.

The whole vessel is easy to operate with 2x Xbox controllers;

You can even hand the controller to the guy behind you or just stand up and look around:

I am usually behind the pilot with my Mavic drone and VR goggles. If we go and scope out a new area and want to look for wildlife I take to the skies with my drone and look down for any wildlife. I then direct the pilot to the wildlife and once we are there I land the drone in my hand, put it in a waterproof container and we 'sink' the boat to go and take a look underwater.

We have room for a big stash too:

 

[Peter Lightowler]

I shot the underwater segments (not the stock footage of the olympics though) for this TV ad, featuring gold medal swimmer Stephanie Rice.
It was shot on the Scarlet W, Nikon 16-35, 10 inch dome on the Gates Pro Action housing.

All topside footage was shot on Gemini with a bunch of VFX work in post.
I think it turned out really welly well.

 

[Peter Lightowler]

It blows my mind just far you can push R3D's, even when the red channel is flatlined with no information recorded.
This was one of the first clips I shot on the Scarlet and to say I was fumbling my war around the Red would be an understatement.

No H20 used, no filter, no manual white balance, just set the colour temp and down I went.
I have come back to this clip several times to try and improve on my grading ability and i am finally happy with the results from the latest grade.

 

[Rui Guerra]

Nice grade Peter!

It will be very interesting if you could share more exactly what post production/grade you had to do to achieve this results.
Also, had you apply any noise reduction in post?
What was the depth that you're shooting in?

Cheers,

 

[Peter Lightowler]

Hey Rui,

I used Davinci Resolve to grade this clip.
You can see in the attached photo that the red channel is virtually non existent.

Depth was around 15 metres and was not very good conditions.
No noise reduction added at all, apart from the colour change, nothing else was done, so no sharpening etc.

The main goal of this grade was to boost the red channel as much as possible and I did that using a combination of primary wheels, RGB Mixer, secondary RGB curves and a little selective saturation.
From memory I used about 5 nodes, with no more than two corrections per node. There is probably a total of 8 corrections made on this clip.
Cheers Pete.

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[Peter Lightowler]

You can see in this photo, how much the red channel has been boosted and hence a better looking white balance.

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[Rui Guerra]

Hey Peter,

Thanks for all the info, very helpful.
I really like the grade you did with this footage.

It's indeed amazing how much info is burried inside the R3D files, although there is the general acceptance that an in-loco WB (made while underwater at the spot) is supposed to give you a better image when compared with an applied post-prod WB.
Although we all know that WB is just metadata applied by the camera after the shoot is done, there is also the rule to expose to the right using the in camera histogram, which is more easy done if we start with a "correct" WB. Otherwise the lack of signal in the red channel will make it more difficult to comply with the ETTR rule, leading to more noise in the image or making us to use more light or a wider aperture.

So, in practical terms, it will be interesting to see what people are doing underwater regarding WB. Can we simply rely on the "invisible" red channel and leave WB/color correction interely for post or should we keep doing an underwater WB while in the spot?

Cheers,

 

[Peter Lightowler]

I would most definately do a manual white balance in situ.
I have always had better results from footage that has been manually white balanced during the dive.

This particular shot was one of the first that i ever took with my Scarlet and I was very much learning my way around the camera.
I now use H20 OLPF on every dive and do a manual white balance several times during the dive.

There is a misconception that you can just fix everything in post because you are recording RAW video. If the camera is not seeing any red colour information, it can not record it though, which makes grading difficult to say the least.

Cheers Pete.

 

[Matt Hipsley]

Hey Pete,

What's your opinion on the H20 OLPF for shallower underwater stuff? Say, less than 10m?
Is it worth investing?

I'll be booking into one of your colouring workshops next year I think!

 

[Peter Lightowler]

Hey Matt, yeah I wouldn’t go underwater without H20.
I find it gives much better separation between red and blue channels but it also helps with UV filtering.

I find it a noticeably better looking image using H20.

Would love to have you onboard a course one day too mate

 

[Rui Guerra]

Over the time, several people spoke about how they like to shoot with the H2O filter, mainly for the supposed better separation between blue and red channels.
But, in al least one short video that in the past was given as an example pf the benefits of using the H2O, the water was noticeable purple (I don't remember right now which video was, so I'm not able to provide right now the link)!

Which makes one think if it is indeed beneficial it's use...

This video shoot by Peter is also another good example of very good color without the H2O, although he says he won't shoot without one, not sure why...?


A last question: since the H2O have a fixed color/formula, how can it be such a good option for all uw shooting scenarios, since "water color / light penetration" changes dramatically with depth, geographic location, time of the year, time of the day and the presence/absence of water contaminants.

An even more though: adding a filter that removes part of the visible spectrum reduces the total amount of light available for shooting, adding noise to the image or leading us to use a wider aperture or slower shooter speed.

Am I missing something here?

Cheers,

 

[Hugh Miller]

The H2O filter does not remove any part of the visible spectrum.
So it doesn't reduce the amount of light hitting the sensor, your exposure will remain the same.

The H2O filter is primarily a very good block for UV. It is UV that causes the purple pollution in the blues (not a mixing of red and blue channels, thats just misinformation that keeps cropping up). UV penetrates the water to almost the same depths as blue does - so as the other colours are desaturated (either by depth or by distance) and your image is mostly exposed from the blue portion of the visible spectrum the UV is there too and pollutes the image. UV is rendered as purple on the sensor (this isn't a Red issue, plenty of cameras suffer from it both stills and video).

Not all water conditions have high UV levels, particulate will block it and phytoplankton in temperate green waters will absorb it, so theres no advantage, regarding UV, to using the H2O OLPF there - but there is also no harm. There is an additional advantage in that it offers greater transmission at the red end of the spectrum, so if your in the shallows you'll have much better red saturation in all water types.

The only time I wouldn't use the H2O OLPF, whilst in the water, is if shooting split shots. It does transmit more infra-red. This isn't a problem underwater as its absorbed very quickly and even in the shallows is too weak to cause an issue but if half the image is above the surface you might have some funny colours and other issues.

So in short, its extremely beneficial when shooting in the field under ambient light. It has no down side (that I've ever found) but ideally switch it out when doing splits.

Hugh

Over the time, several people spoke about how they like to shoot with the H2O filter, mainly for the supposed better separation between blue and red channels.
But, in al least one short video that in the past was given as an example pf the benefits of using the H2O, the water was noticeable purple (I don't remember right now which video was, so I'm not able to provide right now the link)!

Which makes one think if it is indeed beneficial it's use...

This video shoot by Peter is also another good example of very good color without the H2O, although he says he won't shoot without one, not sure why...?


A last question: since the H2O have a fixed color/formula, how can it be such a good option for all uw shooting scenarios, since "water color / light penetration" changes dramatically with depth, geographic location, time of the year, time of the day and the presence/absence of water contaminants.

An even more though: adding a filter that removes part of the visible spectrum reduces the total amount of light available for shooting, adding noise to the image or leading us to use a wider aperture or slower shooter speed.

Am I missing something here?

Cheers,

 

[Rui Guerra]

Hi Hugh,

Thanks for the clarification.

Do you know (or anyone knows) if the H2O OLPF is more suited to some sensor types and not that much to other sensors?

I mean, it was developed, if I'm not mistaken, in the times of the first Dragon sensors. Since the change from the DSMC to the DSMC2 cameras (Weapon cameras with latest Dragon sensor and more recently with the Helium and Monster sensors) there could be some diferences in the sensor itself that makes the H2O a little obsolete?

Cheers,

 

[Hugh Miller]

Thats a good point and I haven't tested the newer sensors yet. I'll try and make some time, do a test and post it here. My Gemini is away at the moment so can't do it right now.

 

[Peter Lightowler]

For those that don't know, Gates recently held an STO training event at NASA's NBL pool.

The primary focus was on the Gates housings as well as Red camera specifics, taught by Sean Ruggeri, and then a little bit of Davinci Resolve thrown in for good measure.
Our last day in the pool, we were fortunate enough to be underwater while a couple of the Astronauts conducted a training mission on the full scale replica of the International Space Station.

Definately an experience beyond description.

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The Gates H1 Hydrogen housing was also tested in the pool

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