The Gentleman's Underwater Bubble Blower Thread

[Marc Thorpe]

I know, I know but it just seems that many of the guys in the underwater world get pretty bitchy towards each other. Super competitive or something and its a shame. You guys get to do the best job ever and should be supportive of one another. In plenty of other threads in this forum people will happily help others with advice and info without being too childish about it all.

I guess it also comes down to the fact that we know each other to have thick skin. I much prefer to converse with people who don't dance around issues, personal or other. Directness allows all parties to know where they stand with each other. It's then down to said parties to either figure out a way forward or call it a day. If a lot more people approached life that way I'm sure at the end of the day we'd be sure of the respect we have for others and vice versa, not to mention the efficiency and standard of our working relationships would be better for it.

 

[Lee Kelly]

I have to disagree.
Sounds more like a bunch of guys who will cut you off when you are trying to merge in traffic, only to get to the next red light one car ahead of you.
Technical skill will only get you so far and if you are a dick then you are a dick and nobody wants to work with those kinds of people. Would you really want to work with another dick?

 

[Marc Thorpe]

I have to disagree.
Sounds more like a bunch of guys who will cut you off when you are trying to merge in traffic, only to get to the next red light one car ahead of you.
Technical skill will only get you so far and if you are a dick then you are a dick and nobody wants to work with those kinds of people. Would you really want to work with another dick?

There's a big difference between being a vindictive road rage prone dick and someone who shoots direct from the hip. And how do you know if anyone is a dick if they keep hiding their true personality or intentions behind a facade of plastic pleasantries?

 

[Lee Kelly]

I guess the differences in each person makes us all so fun.
My main point is, that this community of like-minded professionals should try to be more supportive and tolerant of eachothers endeavors.
Its not that hard.
Instead of falling into the trap of petty and sly digs either dont comment or instead remain positive.
Call me an old romantic but if I was someone trying to gain sponsorship and funding for projects I sure as hell would be treating every single person I meet as my new best friend.
Just saying.
You just never know who might have been researching and when confronted with, what could be perceived as an immature attitude, might reconsider backing said projects now or in the future.
Its lime people who post photos of themselves being stupid on facebook and then wonder why they didnt get called back for the second interview.

 

[Marc Thorpe]

Like you said, and I agree, it takes all kinds and spirits to make this kaleidoscopic orb spin. Some people also have a dry, direct and very dark sense of humour. What offends one may have another rolling in the aisles. I personally prefer any encounter to be one where we know and understand that an iron is an iron..

 

[Lee Kelly]

Others may call it trolling or being a hero behind a keyboard.

 

[Lee Kelly]

Anyway, all the best with your work. So far it looks amazing.

 

[Marc Thorpe]

Others may call it trolling or being a hero behind a keyboard.

I think REDUser is the last place you'd find any Keyboard Warriors.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Tom, I respect that you would donate your time and passion into projects geared towards helping the planet instead of just chasing top dollar.

Thanks Lee, I probably should have clarified my statement further, seems to have generated some confusion. Little enough uw money/projects going around to keep everyone in business, would not want someone like a trust fund kid acing the hard working stiffs just because he can financially, enough of that going on as it is. That being said, it all comes out in the final product eventually.

We are, however, in dire straits ocean-wise. I recently completed an online marine biology course given by Dr. Ove Hoegh-Guldberg at the University of Queensland, one of the foremost scientists in his field; it was not only a very sobering education, but an alarming one. Anything we can do to raise visibility and promote positive/corrective action is vitally important, there really isn't much time left. I, for one, will donate my efforts and equipment to this end.

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Change of subject:

Upcoming project requires me to train on CCR, Hollis Prism to be exact (really looking forward to putting this out to Matt Ferraro's team in Monterey, the water is so cold there, rumor has it Matt has a battery powered jockstrap heater , will be filming science in the 300 foot depth range. My current housings do not operate reliably at those depths, I wanted to put this out to John E and Ryan C, especially since Weapon is now a distinct possibility.

John, Ryan, normally I would have PMd both of you, apologies for that, but I would really like to hear input from the high-time CCR guys, Ross, Johnny et al, and especially from the Beebs own Hugh Miller, if you are watching the thread mate, all y'all operate at those depths on a regular basis, any advice well heeded.

Thanks in advance, science and conservation at the forefront, working hard to make this happen.

 

[Lee Kelly]

Yeah Tom,
Good call. I was talking to a novice diver today who had dived once on the reef and was underwhelmed by the quality of the reef. We all know that many of the worlds 'best' dive sites are a bit of a letdown colour wise through your own eyes, especially after seeing strobe lit photos or well lit video footage bringing up all the colour.
He was suggesting it may be from bleaching and reef degradation but I think he was just expecting a hyper-colour wonderland.
I recently worked as part of a VR crew for Conservation International up in Raja Ampat and up there is such amazing eco systems and a really good place to study the effects of all the issues scientists are suggesting. It might be too late though.
Keep up the good fight.

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

Tom --

DEEP WEAPON is depth rated to 450 feet. Unofficially I've tank tested it to over 600 for a particular customer. The product is robust.

As for operability at 300 feet I trust this community will respond with real-world results.

......I wanted to put this out to John E and Ryan C, especially since Weapon is now a distinct possibility.

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

The Origins of Seal Check

The Origins of Seal Check

I just posted this over on Facebook, but thought it would be of particular interest to this group.



The Origins of Seal Check

Our industry has a fascinating history. Vacuum checkers, for example. I’ve been digging into this for some time trying to identify the idea originators. So far the trail goes back to the mid-90’s IMAX Mark II camera sousings used by Bob Cranston and Howard Hall. Al Giddings vacuum checked his film housings before that in the 80’s but he was not, apparently, the creator.

While sorting through Bob’s equipment recently (and he literally had a barn full of equipment) I found this little treasure. Clearly a hand pump vacuum checker, it is stamped ‘HYDROFLEX’. So I texted Pete the photo and got an immediate response: ‘Wow! Vintage HF!’. Early 1990’s, he said. And of course it uses a simple Schrader valve (same as bike tires) which was the technology handy at the time.

Pete went on to say that Lamar Boren and Jordy Klein Sr. were vacuum checking 30 years before that! (Lamar and Jordy are famous pioneers -- 007, Creature from the Black Lagoon, Seahunt and many others). Holy mackerel. I would never have guessed the history of Seal Check goes all the way to the 1960’s. Amazing.

Which just goes to prove: “There are very few new ideas. Just a lot of unread history.”

(Spoiler alert: I just found an article in Bob's stuff from Skin Diver. October 1970. "The Dome Port in Underwater". More to follow....)

 

[Tom Hamilton]

Thanks John, yes, seal check is like a condom, you won't know you needed it until you really wished you'd had it

Depth specs look great re housing, due very respectable results on last science shoot with Canon 11-24, will be looking to use that lens again, any vignetting issues there with Weapon 6K/Gates port extenders? 8K and beyond?

I feel it necessary to say here, we owe it to Bob Cranston to continue his work underwater, the legacy he left is astonishing in scope, but his far greater accomplishment, I feel, was the unbending generosity with which he shared his knowledge. We have all benefited. I never met the man, only spoke to him briefly on the phone once, but I see his influence everywhere.

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

... Canon 11-24, will be looking to use that lens again, any vignetting issues there with Weapon 6K/Gates port extenders? 8K and beyond?

My testing and field reports look good. Ryan reported on the 11-24 / 8KVV a couple pages back.

I feel it necessary to say here, we owe it to Bob Cranston to continue his work underwater, the legacy he left is astonishing in scope, but his far greater accomplishment, I feel, was the unbending generosity with which he shared his knowledge. We have all benefited. I never met the man, only spoke to him briefly on the phone once, but I see his influence everywhere.

This is true. Many in this forum hold cards close to the chest, which is perfectly natural in a competitive world. But Bob saw things differently. We all benefit from his shared knowledge.

 

[Michael Hastings]

I just posted this over on Facebook, but thought it would be of particular interest to this group.



The Origins of Seal Check

Our industry has a fascinating history. Vacuum checkers, for example. I’ve been digging into this for some time trying to identify the idea originators. So far the trail goes back to the mid-90’s IMAX Mark II camera sousings used by Bob Cranston and Howard Hall. Al Giddings vacuum checked his film housings before that in the 80’s but he was not, apparently, the creator.

While sorting through Bob’s equipment recently (and he literally had a barn full of equipment) I found this little treasure. Clearly a hand pump vacuum checker, it is stamped ‘HYDROFLEX’. So I texted Pete the photo and got an immediate response: ‘Wow! Vintage HF!’. Early 1990’s, he said. And of course it uses a simple Schrader valve (same as bike tires) which was the technology handy at the time.

Pete went on to say that Lamar Boren and Jordy Klein Sr. were vacuum checking 30 years before that! (Lamar and Jordy are famous pioneers -- 007, Creature from the Black Lagoon, Seahunt and many others). Holy mackerel. I would never have guessed the history of Seal Check goes all the way to the 1960’s. Amazing.

Which just goes to prove: “There are very few new ideas. Just a lot of unread history.”


(Spoiler alert: I just found an article in Bob's stuff from Skin Diver. October 1970. "The Dome Port in Underwater". More to follow....)

View attachment 85692

Funny you mention the schroeder valve. I just posted this last week as part of a discussion about the liabilities we manufacturers have to consider in the thread about media:

"As far as the "locked out" part - 1) as a customer there are times when every shot isn't that critical (say a concert or a play with multiple camera coverage) but you need lots of media because of the time length - and as a reasonable guy I feel like I wouldn't complain if a few shots were lost to regular media but 2) if I put on my manufacturer hat I realize that isn't the way it works. I can remember years ago a customer bugging me to put a Schroeder valve (like the ones on your tires) in the housing so he could pull a vacuum for a quick leak test. I said "look if I start doing that some idiot will take it to the gas station and hook it up to the compressor and blow it up in his face (the clamps for the front and back are designed for external pressure - not internal) and right or wrong they will come after me." In the end I wanted to help him out but didn't want the liability of even selling him one so I took one of the valves and the proper tap out of the drawer and laid it on a table and told him that "if they weren't there when I came back I wouldn't be upset".

So as a manufacturer I understand that often, unfortunately, you have to design your product and your policies to handle not the best customers but the worst."

That would have been sometime in the late 80s (customer had a 3 chip camera and 3/4" recorder in the housing - weighed over 130 pounds when ballasted neutral)


And interesting about the dome port article: Is that the one by Flip Schulke?

Rick Frehsee (one of the top underwater photographers through the 70s and 80s) gave me that article as well as his copy of Gomer McNeil's "Optical Fundamentals of Underwater Photography" McNeil literally wrote the book on the subject - I believe he was contracted by the navy to do the research. I still have the book somewhere.

And Regarding history - over the years I had at least half a dozen people claim to me that they did the first live underwater television shoot (in the 60s or 70s), but in 1982 I went to visit a guy named Mort Toggweiler (out in your neighborhood). Mort had a small advertisement in Skin Diver selling a book and parts for making your own housings. On his wall he had a newspaper article from 1958 on ABC's Wide world of sports doing a live shoot with a massive television camera in an underwater housing.

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

HELIUM / DEEP WEAPON

HELIUM / DEEP WEAPON

Got the question today: "Will HELIUM fit in DEEP WEAPON?" Yes. HELIUM is DSMC2. Add it to the list of RED cameras compatible with DEEP WEAPON. Which is all of them. RED ONE notwithstanding.

 

[John J Ellerbrock]

Thanks Mike, for sharing dome / port history by email. Like Seal Checks, we have been using dome ports for a long time. 80 years, maybe more.

And interesting about the dome port article: Is that the one by Flip Schulke?

Rick Frehsee (one of the top underwater photographers through the 70s and 80s) gave me that article as well as his copy of Gomer McNeil's "Optical Fundamentals of Underwater Photography" McNeil literally wrote the book on the subject - I believe he was contracted by the navy to do the research. I still have the book somewhere.

And Regarding history - over the years I had at least half a dozen people claim to me that they did the first live underwater television shoot (in the 60s or 70s), but in 1982 I went to visit a guy named Mort Toggweiler (out in your neighborhood). Mort had a small advertisement in Skin Diver selling a book and parts for making your own housings. On his wall he had a newspaper article from 1958 on ABC's Wide world of sports doing a live shoot with a massive television camera in an underwater housing.

 

[Michael Hastings]

It turns out the article was "The Dome Port in Underwater Photography" by Gomer McNeil. It is an excellent condensation of the most important dome port info from his book.

I don't know how cool it is to post an entire magazine article on a public forum, but I would be happy to email a copy to anyone that wants it. Just send me an email to the address below and I'll attach it to a reply.

 

[Matt Ferraro]

The first live underwater broadcast I am aware of was done at the Grand Congloué in the south of France, 1953. I don't recall the specifics but I believe it was transmitted from France to England. There is a recording of the broadcast available via one of the French stock companies. Captain Cousteau and Albert Falco are both interviewed and I believe Falco shot the underwater camera. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll dig through my old research to find out exactly where you can see it.