Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Gentleman's Underwater Bubble Blower Thread

Jason Sturgis said:
Hey Johnny,

Yeah, the service seems to have slipped. I too had to email someone and I am now awaiting a response. So no confirmation on my policy and if I am covered for underwater work or not. Keep us posted if you find another option that suits our needs and our required coverage.

It's not exactly clear from Tom's answer that he got from Heff if they would honor a claim for underwater damage. " This does not consider that, typically, if we were to submit a claim with your circumstances to the carrier and explain the circumstances, the carrier would probably process the claim regardless." "Probably" is not the kind of word I like to hear when dealing with claims and gear.

Thanks again for all for the info. Much appreciated!
Click to expand...

Johnny and Jason, they told me today via email no coverage for Uw cameras in housings and in water use. Only accidental water damage is covered according to them. My old policy with them never stated this anywhere. I still have it. They have changed the policy, the fine print on a page 40 something in the policy says no coverage so I am now looking elsewhere. My policy had just expired a day ago. Was getting ready to renew. If anyone here finds useful solid coverage please post ASAP. DAN H20 policy states if your housing is lost out of your possession, say you let go of it Uw and can't recover it lose it they don't cover it. But if it gets stolen its ok, go figure.
 
Jeff,

Let me start by saying that you are one of the reasons I visit Reduser. Your knowledge and both your capacity and ability to share it have, in more than one occasion, helped me in turn broaden mine. But I have to say that I do not appreciate one bit this whole "WTF is worng with you guys" angle of yours. I do not know what it takes to be a moderator, post count, real or perceived industry expertise, being an early RED adopter, who knows and who cares, but as much as you may think you are handling this issue with tact and finesse, sadly, you are not. And besides your knowledge, which may well be the result of years and years of toiling in the industry, you always come across as a very intelligent individual. So, how it is that you cannot grasp a theme behind all the regular shenanigans in this thread is beyond me. EVERY argument and discussion, both in the old and new thread, have ALWAYS had the same party at one corner of the ring. And that one party has elicited the same responses from basically everybody else in this thread, which either means that party is either extremely unlucky and quite unfairly treated, or the rest of us are regularly victimized by a pervasive attitude that becomes, many a time, simply unbearable. Either way, a pattern should have become quite clear to you or anybody else by now. Whether you do not see this or you choose to ignore it in a gallant effort to be fair is another matter. But irrespective of the opinion you may have formed of all of us as a whole as a result of the constant bickering with that one individual, we are not children and I for one, do not appreciate to be issued ultimatums that contain all this "WTF" and "kiss ass" jewels of wisdom. So please brother, do what you must but do it with the same respect you so candidly encourage us to exhibit.
 
Rudi, you're correct that my addressing of this matter was not very tactful. Perhaps it's because I've tried that approach before and on more than one occasion. We are on the fifth incarnation of this thread and so far it has transpired the same exact way. Every single time. Is there a pattern? YES! If you, or anyone else contributing here, wants to discuss this with me via PM, please do. Just one thing to take into consideration for anyone who does contact me privately, be prepared to make direct post references and be specific before calling out any one individual as a problem influence. I have every one of these Bubble Blowers' threads pulled aside for reference. Last time around, that turned into a tall order for most who were PM'ing me with accusations. I'm pretty familiar with these threads and what I'm seeing more than anything is continuous interaction between conflicting personalities.
 
Rudi Herbert said:
... My point was more that, just as insurance companies and their unscrupulous agents go to whatever lengths to, generally, not honor their commitments and obligations to their clients, so must we be flexible and creative in our thinking. At any rate, as per your own admission of being self insured, I think you probably do not have a valid point of reference to even offer any kind of input in this particular topic. ..
Click to expand...

If you trully believe that your and others difficulty in obtaining camera flood insurance is because of the fault of "insurance companies and their unscrupulous agents" you have certainly missed the point that I made.

It seems that insurance companies agree with me and not you, so may point of view does not appear unique.

Insurance copanies are running a business. The way they make money is by trading risk, spreading risk and diversifying risk, not reducing it. It may or may not be beneficial to the insurer to provide a cover against particular risk or group of risks that are not common, but significant if exposed to those risks. Thus, in order to make their products more competitive or affordable, they often provide exclusions. There is no point including cover for a camera flood in the ocean if most customers don't need it because it would affect the premium calculation for the vast majority of people that do not need it. It seems reasonable to exclude it.

The exclusions are not designed to piss you off. They define the boundaries of the risk profile that the insurer is prepared to take for a given premium. Remove exclusions, and they clearly indicated that they were prepared to provide new, higher, premium. It's perfectly reasonable and fair.

The benefit of taking insurance is usually short term. Either that, or the insurance product is mis-priced, which is less common. During sufficiently long period of time, insurance is like a lottery: the insured is guaranteed to lose money.

But, here is the rub: "sufficiently long" may or may not be acceptable level of short term risk that an individual can take. In such case, the insurance may be a better option. For example, most individuals are not able to accept the risk of losing their home. This is because they do not have the cash flow and do not live long enough or do not have enough homes to make self insurance viable for such type of risk.

There is nothing "unscrupulous" about it and the letter that Tom has received seemed fair and reasonable to me. In fact, if I was running the insurance company, I would probably graciously decline to insure him at all. Nothing personal, just prudent risk assessment.

Depending on your individual circumstances, risk profile, type of insurance and the premium, it may or may not be beneficial to take one. In my case, I decided that it wasn't. Your case may be different.

Rudi Herbert said:
...And in keeping up with Pawel's MO now, I have not suffered a flood in the past 15 years ever since I permanently switched to Gates housings :-) Maybe I should self insure...
Click to expand...

Again, it depends on the risk profile, potential loss, duration, exposure to risk, and the premium. Not suffering a flood in the past 15 years is good, but it does not determine any of the factors mentioned above that, in my view, one should consider in making decision about purchasing suitable insurance or not.
 
Johnny Friday said:
This works, but for home-owners and their gear, but NOT for professionals....be sure to ask if it covers you while on a job and theft or theft off the airlines....this will reveal a new feeling of interest. but if you only shoot close to home and are not a working professional then a good route to go....
Click to expand...

I do my own thing, I doubt I will ever make a dime off what I am doing and that is not my goal really. Theft is covered and internationally its covered as well I have spoken with them at length as I go to Australia and I do not want issues like that.

I am sure I could come up with some better insurance policy if I tried but I am not really sure?

Pawel Achtel said:
Greg, you may like to check if the word "home" in the "home content" can refer to "the ocean"....I'm sure some of us can probably argue this point successfully :)
Click to expand...

I am unsure if you are trolling me like everybody else? My homeowners policy is actually quite comprehensive it covers anything I own + things I own while travel or during activities.
 
Johnny Friday said:
Last i checked with Dan---it's been a few years mind you--yes, they do insure for such things, but they also have limitations on policy amount..last i had checked it was $10k and one could get a special rider to go to around $20k....i might be off with those numbers a bit, but whatever it was it was not even close to coverage most of us require. Also, no insurance on sending gear in post etc...all the normal things you take for grantid when on a production job---someone moving your gear and breaking it etc...Be sure to check well and get not only verbal but in writing.

Jason, i also have dealt with same agent there...but sadly she has moved on...Hefferen now has HORRIBLE customer service--Bob C. pointed this out to me lately and today i found out...these folks cannot even find my policy today, nor can the operator put me in touch with an agent. At days end i finally got the operator to put me through to someone only to get an answering machine telling me to email them and a representative would get back to me within 24 to 48 hours---it is incredibly frustrating to deal with this stuff w/out a live person and to wait to get answers to our questions on our policies we have had for many years is even more of a sad token of lack of any customer service--regardless of whether i get confirmation of flood insurance, i'm moving to another agency....one that at least assigns an agent that will talk to me.
Click to expand...

AFAIK you can get 50k and open new policies for each subsequent one?

Edit: Just checked my email yes 50k
 
Last edited:
Greg, my post was well intended (all of them are). The point I was trying to make was that "home content" is rarely covered if you take it out to the ocean and flood the housing there, for example.

But, I was joking that most of us spend so much time in the ocean that we could argue it is our "home" and therefore are able to make a compeling argument in favour of a potential claim :)
 
My two cents:
I use Hefferman for all coverage - loss, theft, planes, etc etc. NO FLOOD.
I have Dans Insurance called H20 ( https://www.h2oinsurance.com/ )
YOU have to contact them to allow you to insure more than 10k- I have all that inside my housing both RED and Stills and Strobes covered.
Lenses, monitors, electronic boards..... they have a 10% deductible for flood claims. Add this to your insured total and you are set.
I have had one claim with them in the past 6 months- Paid a check within 10 days. No questions asked. Claim was for about $1300.

If you put your flood in your homeowners and you ever use it IT WILL affect your premiums for your home- not worth it.
Use a dedicated insurer for this...

Dan has come through in the past and until further notice my $ is with them.
Water damage is a reality in our business and it will happen sooner or later... Peace of mind here.

Tom et al- glad that our conversation opened eyes here for the better.
Get covered.

Best
Mauricio -
 
PS- I have close to 30K with Dan. You can have much more... full coverage for flood only is about $700.
Add this to your Hefferman or who ever you use and your are set-
I only insure body, lenses ,cards etc. NOT the actual housings etc .
 
Greg F said:
AFAIK you can get 50k and open new policies for each subsequent one?

Edit: Just checked my email yes 50k
Click to expand...

Greg, this is my point: $50k is not sufficient for many of us....in fact far from sufficient for many of us that have a full underwater assembly for a production. Additionally coverage to a said amount is only one part of the equation....are you traveling for work or pleasure ? this would be something to discuss with Dan's underwriter as well....and coverage sending gear via UPS; Fedex etc.....these are usually covered by a commercial policy....homeowners and DAn's insurance usually have exclusions in many of these areas and not usually meant fo many that are making a career of moving their gear around on a regular basis---risk is much higher when used in this manner no doubt.
 
................................Ethical business practices?.........

................................Ethical business practices?.........

Looks like the Heffernan policies originally covered flood, they quietly inserted the exclusion at some point without telling anyone. What else don't we know?

I am reminded of a credit card issuer a couple of years ago, stealthily changed our billing due date from the end of the month to the beginning, we got zapped for late payment fees.

Turned in the cards, will now give Heff the Heave Ho as well.
 
Athos, Kat Wong maybe as Insurance solution for UW shooters.

Athos, Kat Wong maybe as Insurance solution for UW shooters.

Tom Hamilton said:
Looks like the Heffernan policies originally covered flood, they quietly inserted the exclusion at some point without telling anyone. What else don't we know?

I am reminded of a credit card issuer a couple of years ago, stealthily changed our billing due date from the end of the month to the beginning, we got zapped for late payment fees.

Turned in the cards, will now give Heff the Heave Ho as well.
Click to expand...

My old policy with Heffernan was One Beacon underwriters, they have apparently changed underwriters and thus so the policy changed. Thankfully just as I was getting ready to renew all this came up. I was actually going to the site to renew my policy when Tom called yesterday to spread the news. Wow, what kind of fate is that. Amazing that it happened the exact same day. Someone looking after me from upstairs.

Only problem I have with DAN policy is if you drop it and lose the entire system or washed off the deck of boat and unrecoverable then that policy also covers nothing. Policy would be good for smaller housings maybe, go pros and still camera housings, DAN deductible is 10%of value which with Epic Brain, battery, SSD card, LCD, Cables, battery plate is quite a bit of coin. $4k maybe more deductible! Wow. If you buy policy from DAN it's not pro rated policy, premium earned by them, no refunds if u cancel.

Some other Redusers have said to go with Kat Wong, you can apparently call and speak with her personally and work out complete coverage that will suit your respective needs at a fair price. Athos Insurance Co. They're in Calif. so I will wait a bit to give them a call today. I am hoping this will cover my gear properly and with few exclusions. 626-379-6280 is her cell. Office is 626-716-9800.

Just read on their web pages coverage is in US territories, Puerto Rico, wondering if they are worldwide now.

Just got off the phone with them, you can speak with a real human being..they do have worldwide coverage the web page i saw was a old page that was still online. Their current page says worldwide coverage.
Getting a email shortly from them, will let you know after I read their policy.

Have to sort this out today. If anyone else has suggestions, I'm up for hearing them.

Best,
Frazier
 
I can find out from Cinesure (FIUA) if they will insure over seas clients if you guys wish? My Deep Red and all accessories cost around $3k a year and my Deep Atom costs about $12k per year but they definitely cover for flooding. From memory I think Lyodds of London underwrite them.
 
John J Ellerbrock said:
by Andy Brandy Casagrande IV.

http://youtu.be/CeLLrsByDRc

J-
Click to expand...

Great work by Andy of course..sharks yes, Andy shared this with me, loved it, but no thank you on the Ice diving, too cold for my thin blood, water temp here is freezing cold now here, it's dropped into the low 70s, brr... Beautiful UW under the ice. Nice to watch from my warm edit suite.

Best,
Frazier
 
Ross Isaacs said:
I can find out from Cinesure (FIUA) if they will insure over seas clients if you guys wish? My Deep Red and all accessories cost around $3k a year and my Deep Atom costs about $12k per year but they definitely cover for flooding. From memory I think Lyodds of London underwrite them.
Click to expand...

That would be very kind of you Ross, please let us know, thanks.
 
John J Ellerbrock said:
by Andy Brandy Casagrande IV.

http://youtu.be/CeLLrsByDRc

J-
Click to expand...

I LOVE Sharks, all Sharks but.... holy crap! Having a GW cruising-by and suddenly break-out towards the camera, pectoral fins down.... gulp.... I think that makes the heart skip a beat or two!
Amazing footage, love it!
Thanks for sharing Andy's work John.
 
Athos Insurance information for UW shooters

Athos Insurance information for UW shooters

Tom Hamilton said:
That would be very kind of you Ross, please let us know, thanks.
Click to expand...

FYI, just got a call from Kat, owner of Athos Insurance Services, LLC and spent the last 30 min. on the phone with her. Her office sent me the current policy information and they do cover on water activity, and underwater filming as long as you have the camera in a protective housing...imagine that you have to put it in a housing to have it covered by insurance. :thumbup:

Getting a quote from them for coverage now. They do cover worldwide, in Mexico they only will pay $25k for a claim, and do not cover if the country you are filming in is a country currently banned by USA gov.

Very nice lady, if you call her office you'll also be able to speak with Aylene there, she got a email out to me in minutes with needed info. I think this may be our answer, will probably insure with them today. Policy for us seems to read fine, lots of pages still reading through all the details. Seem very service oriented.

Frazier
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top