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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The first price increase of $1,000 doubles the price of Scarlet?

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Joseph,

I know you're trying to put things into perspective here, but some of your details are off.

"3K for $3K" was the marketing buzz at NAB '08. That was no longer being said only a couple months later and was in fact a dead concept by the time IBC '08 rolled around and Jim made his "Everything has Changed" announcement. Some details leaked out in October '08, but November '08 saw the official DSMC announcement with an all NEW Scarlet design and several different versions. Of the 2/3" models, the interchangeable was $2700 (brain only) and the fixed lens model was $3750 (brain only). There were a few people complaining about "what happened to 3K for $3K", but mostly the news was received with great enthusiasm.

NAB '09 came and went with some glimpses of the new DSMC models -- RED not present on the NAB show floor, but did their own event at the Rio in LV. Several RED One cameras being used by others on the show floor for demonstration purposes.

Big Scarlet announcement in November '09. More abilities added, pricing announced for the fixed lens kit -- $4750, including side CF module, REDmote, 2.8" touch LCD, REDVOLT battery and travel charger.

In about March of this year, there was mention of an approximate $250 price increase on the 2/3" and S35 Scarlet models. To enable faster REDCODE rate recording and some other color science matching between Scarlet and Epic. Everyone seemed open to that -- the only complaints I recall were people whining that it was taking so long. No new pricing was given at NAB '10.

September 2010 -- HDRx added to Scarlet for $1000 price increase. And with that it's still under $4K for the 2/3" 3K interchangeable brain. Under $6K for the fixed version kit with the items listed above.

People complaining about the price of Scarlet and then saying they're going to buy an AF100 can only be viewed as humorous. A < $4K camera brain is too expensive! I'm going to go buy a $5K camera body. :smilielol5:


Vince Doran said:
Listen mate.......Jim said 3k for 3k and cant deliver on that......end of story
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And where were you two years ago when 3K for $3K was abandoned? Most any of us who actually follow the progression of these products and various announcements from RED have waved goodbye to 3K for $3K long ago. Why are people coming out of the woodwork now to bitch about it? Seriously?

What did you actually think you were going to get with that $3K? That originally proposed $3K camera had no frills, no bells, no whistles and was a totally different animal than what Scarlet has become over the past 2.5 years.

Consider what has happened to global markets and economies since then. Manufacturing and materials prices don't hold steady. I'm actually impressed/amazed that the prices haven't shifted more drastically. Especially considering the RED One MX is now $25K.
 
Jim Retar said:
Something also to remember when reading "no more large price hikes will occur"
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Paraphrased or not, but I'm going to need a link for that one. ?
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Paraphrased or not, but I'm going to need a link for that one. ?
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Upping the price significantly for adding a major performance enhancing feature would not be a violation of the no major price increase for what was already on the table anyway.
When it comes down to it, we all really want HDRx in our cameras anyway and to build Scarlet otherwise at this point would be foolish. The only objections to adding the feature were price and schedule, not that people didn't want it at all.
 
David Rasberry said:
Upping the price significantly for adding a major performance enhancing feature would not be a violation of the no major price increase for what was already on the table anyway.
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Agreed.

That's also why Jim requested a thread / poll to gauge interest in the HDRx upgrade. And, while it was very devising amongst the community, the majority still opted for it. And there are far more benefits to having this feature implemented. For one, most of us in the Epic crowd would be less interested in Scarlet as a companion camera if it can't match Epic's exposure range and color reproduction. In the end, HDRx will sell more cameras and give the cameras a much longer lifespan.


Brian Petrie said:
I really think that "3k for 3k" needs to automatically change to "I'm an Idiot" like how s-occer mom= Hoochie mama. What do you think Mods??
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Sounds great, except too many of us have already quoted "3K for 3K" ourselves in talking about how it was a short-lived dream.

You're also right about the original Scarlet concept being a question. Those who don't understand RED or those who have not worked with RED are not going to understand this. At NAB 2008, there was a hypothetical mock-up in a display case. A few people got to see it configured in different set-ups or even hold it. But that's all it was. If anyone took a second to step away from the herd of sheep as they wandered through the RED tent, they could have spoke with Matt (designer), Jim himself, or several others at RED and got a better feel for what Scarlet was at that point. But in truth, at that point, Scarlet was an idea. It was that mock-up sitting in that display case. 3K was decided on as RED's sensor team was busy at work on a 2/3" sensor with that resolution. 2/3" was decided on as it was an obvious choice for a compact camera that still could have the most popular and widely used professional sensor size on the market for video/motion use. Beyond that, everything else was hypothetical. RED was reaching out to not only their customers, but the industry as a whole.

Jim Retar said:
There is just no compassion and you know it. AF-100 WILL launch this year and will cost below $5000 (stateside).

I'd bet my house on it.
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First official shipment of AF100's arrives stateside in december. Demo units are already here. Expect mass availability in Q1 2011. MSRP is $4995 for the camera body with battery and charger. I think there's also a package that includes the 14-45 zoom. The m4/3 3D lens also comes out in late November.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
And where were you two years ago when 3K for $3K was abandoned? Most any of us who actually follow the progression of these products and various announcements from RED have waved goodbye to 3K for $3K long ago. Why are people coming out of the woodwork now to bitch about it? Seriously?
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Surely there can't be any surprise that there would be some remarks? When some forum members set up the Scarlet as the second coming and dismiss others for using DSLR's there will be a backlash when the camera doesn't appear.

There is some great info in this forum which encourages others to join the community and purchase a RED product in the future... but the attitude of some members here is a real turn off, and it seems in many cases, they are not even RED ONE owners.
 
Scott Crawley said:
Go stir shit at ScarletUser, we've had enough of that here.
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Don't encourage people. ;)

Don't want it on either forum. Its nice and quiet over on Scarletuser. The natives are being civil but the odd drifter is causing a few problems. It seems all the people who are outraged are not regular posters but are drifters.

Give it a week and it will all either calm down or things will clamp down.

Just no more threads relating to it.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
And where were you two years ago when 3K for $3K was abandoned? Most any of us who actually follow the progression of these products and various announcements from RED have waved goodbye to 3K for $3K long ago. Why are people coming out of the woodwork now to bitch about it? Seriously?
Click to expand...

Ultimately I think the issue is that Red has gone through a conceptual change with the Scarlet program, and a lot of people are having a hard time adjusting. Scarlet used to be for everyone, now it's not.

Scarlet will be a fantastic camera, and it will be worth every single penny that they charge for it. Now, however, people are realizing that they've been left behind as the product has developed.

And, the 20% increase puts the camera at 2x the original price which makes it easy to latch onto as people grieve the loss.

We're currently in the "Anger/Denial" stage with a bit of "Depression/Loneliness" mixed in, which means acceptance is just around the corner...
 
Colin Sheldon said:
We're currently in the "Anger/Denial" stage with a bit of "Depression/Loneliness" mixed in, which means acceptance is just around the corner...
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Nice Colin, unfortunately the Kubler-Ross paradigm rarely works in order and patients will doubtless jump back and forth...

...wait a minute are on a Self Help forum or...no its a camera site.

You know who we need now...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1CapyWuQNA
 
It just gets annoying when people keep bringing this up. Every year car companies come out with new and exciting prototypes and sometimes even give an estimated arrival date. Undoubtedly, most never show up or when they do they are drastically different. :auto:

This is just like the Scarlet at NAB 08. No one ever gets mad at Ford/:Chevy_anim:/BMW because their prototypes never come to fruition, same should be the case with RED. Not to mention, when car companies prototype's do make it to market it's usually a stripped down shell of their former self. With the Scarlet it is the opposite, it's getting pumped full of amazing goodies. So stop the whining and enjoy the "Red" ride.:driving:


P.S. never thought I'd get to use those emoticons
 
Brian Petrie said:
It just gets annoying when people keep bringing this up. Every year car companies come out with new and exciting prototypes and sometimes even give an estimated arrival date. Undoubtedly, most never show up or when they do they are drastically different. :auto:

This is just like the Scarlet at NAB 08. No one ever gets mad at Ford/:Chevy_anim:/BMW because their prototypes never come to fruition, same should be the case with RED. Not to mention, when car companies prototype's do make it to market it's usually a stripped down shell of their former self. With the Scarlet it is the opposite, it's getting pumped full of amazing goodies. So stop the whining and enjoy the "Red" ride.:driving:


P.S. never thought I'd get to use those emoticons
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Exactly! And not to mention that it gives you a hell of a lot more bang for buck than any of the competitors do.
 
I truly hope this thread becomes the dumping ground for this topic and helps clean up the other threads as a result. Though I think that’s wishful thinking. In the spirit of it though…

One could make the argument that there never has been a price increase as the product is not actually for sale yet. The RED One just saw a price increase, but the Scarlet just saw an estimated price adjustment. Some people will want to call that semantics, but there really is a big difference.

Scarlet’s value proposition is still amazing (even more so with HDRx™) and the adjusted price estimate still reflects that.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Paraphrased or not, but I'm going to need a link for that one. ?
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I think he was referring to this:

Jannard said:
No large price increase other than what was stated. If we add boards and ASICs, it will cost more. The only reason we would do that is for EasyHDR™™ and HDRx™™. That would only be for Scarlet 2/3", 2/3" Fixed and Scarlet S35.

Jim
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The only thing about all of this that really gets to me is that RED has been very transparent about everything.

Every meaningful time they have re-imagined re-designed re-specced or re-priced something they posted about it here in clear...white on dark grey.

And they've been doing this regarding the Scarlet for 2 years.

And they've told everyone, since the very very beginning (i.e., RED ONE), to expect prices, specifications, and dates to change. Not that they might change, but to expect that they will.

And suddenly people realize that it's not just going to be a $3,000.00 ready to shoot out of the box package and are livid?

Ah, well... definitely ready to put this one to bed.

RED does and will make some astonishing cameras. Those who want one (myself included) must either find a way to make the finances work out, or learn to live with lesser.
 
David Rasberry said:
Smart move for any yet to be released product. There is no firm release date for the AF-100 yet either.
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No one day date no. But it WILL be released end of December.

Anyway, I still think and stick to my opinion that scarlet was announced and immediately after the market shifted. Whilst ideally it would be good if Scarlet was here now. I certainly think just about every manufacturer had to rethink their approach and Im glad the scarlet has evolved.

I have no personal attachment to any company or product. When Scarlet comes out, Ill look like any other tool. But I have high hopes that it will be something thats fits my market and offers the quality and features Id like it to have. At the moment the AF100 is a no brainer - gets me out of DSLR hell, but what can you do since the GFC everyone wants cheaper.

This market is such a fluid thing.

:beatdeadhorse5:
 
There is a saying in the engineering business - "There comes a time in every project where you have to shoot the engineer and get it into production!" - Red obviously doesn't believe this and it is a good thing. Scarlet is now a way better camera than it was 2 years ago. (So is Epic for that matter.) As impatient as I am to get one, the HDR capability is going to be very useful to me. And it's not like anyone else is making a better camera for less money. Or even for more money. So there isn't anything to complain about.
 
Just to stir the pot a bit, one answer to the "3k for $3k slogan might be to just change it to "4k for $4k."

4k is supposed to be the new benchmark plus in an extra year and a half everybody seems to have added another K to their sensors.

Please take this with the grain of salt and smile that is intended. :)

I'm ( sort of) patiently waiting for my stage 2 epic and the anticipation/frustration is eased a bit by the awesome new capabilities.
 
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