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The finer points of RED Rentals

Mark Thorpe

Mark Thorpe

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Hi Guys,
I know there has been an increasing number of threads as regarding the renting out of RED cams as a way to reccuperate the outlay of buying this system. I would like to think that seeing as this site is and forever will be the nerve centre of all things relating to RED there will eventually be some sticky related to RED Rentals. I think that we owe it to ourselves to set the industry standard when it comes to rental costs for RED and all its peripherals. I would suggest a brainstorming session with the objective of settling a tiered rental structure starting with the RED body only and then different costs for the added peripherals, Cage, Rails, Magazines, Lenses etc etc.

I'd hate to think that the cammeraderie and friendships we are building pre-delivery will be washed away as individuals look to rent out their systems and do so by undercutting all and sundry. Business is business I know but if we set a recognized pricing structure I believe we can all have an equal chance at benefiting from the initial industry demand for RED as and when deliveries start.

Just a thought,
Cheers,
Mark.
 
CamDiver said:
Hi Guys,
I know there has been an increasing number of threads as regarding the renting out of RED cams as a way to reccuperate the outlay of buying this system. I would like to think that seeing as this site is and forever will be the nerve centre of all things relating to RED there will eventually be some sticky related to RED Rentals. I think that we owe it to ourselves to set the industry standard when it comes to rental costs for RED and all its peripherals. I would suggest a brainstorming session with the objective of settling a tiered rental structure starting with the RED body only and then different costs for the added peripherals, Cage, Rails, Magazines, Lenses etc etc.

I'd hate to think that the cammeraderie and friendships we are building pre-delivery will be washed away as individuals look to rent out their systems and do so by undercutting all and sundry. Business is business I know but if we set a recognized pricing structure I believe we can all have an equal chance at benefiting from the initial industry demand for RED as and when deliveries start.

Just a thought,
Cheers,
Mark.
Click to expand...

Mark, thats a good idea, but all we learned in the past is, that nobody will stay in the line. That´s a normal thing, because business is going cool in some companies, in others not. If the pressure is high enough, they will rent out it for less and for less. You will have different structures in different companies. there are companies offering services on weekend and 24/7 - some have a big team with well experienced people, but others are working alone and do not need a full paid rental. I think this is the same in every country and in every business...
 
ludmux,
Great points and ones I knew were coming. Whilst we can't always expect everyone to tow the line for the very same reasons you highlight I think there should at least be a standard rate for RED rentals etc, or at least benchmark guidelines for those of us who have never rented our gear out before. I understand that most who are willing to rent will be flexible when it comes to money wanted and money available from the client. I just hope they use their common sense and don't start undercutting to the extreme.

I guess we will only really find out as and when the whistle blows heralding the release of RED one.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
Haha, and here at first I was hoping you meant: "Let's not lose that tight knit community and cut a great deal for all of our friends' rentals on REDuser.net"

Thanks a lot Mark... *Grumble* *grumble* *grumble*
 
I'm against the formation of monopolies and oligopolies. It hurts the general public, so I'd have to pass on price-fixing with other companies.
 
I want to be able to rent out my Red for as much as a can (naturally) but after I saw www.IndieRentals.com release their rates of $495 (Day) / $1,475 (Week) / $4,950 (Month) for Red One and that they will actually ship you the camera, it seems I can never rent it out for higher than those rates. As such, I will probably rent it out for exactly those rates, or maybe slightly less.

BUT...I will probably never rent out my Red without myself or a very trusted friend/family member going as Red Operator. So, I will be able to bundle in an addditional fee for operator.

Why? Because I'd say for at least the first year, the vast majority of people wanting to use Red will have no idea on how to use it, so I will be equally renting out my Red and my ability to use my Red. Anyone who already knew Red and simply wanted my gear, would probably just rent it out of LA. Thus any Pacific NW people who want Red will also want me to be the operator. Now what to charge for me to be the operator? I don't know, I guess it depends upon how good I can get with it.
 
Lowkus said:
I'm against the formation of monopolies and oligopolies. It hurts the general public, so I'd have to pass on price-fixing with other companies.
Click to expand...
I agree with this.

Shawn Nelson said:
I want to be able to rent out my Red for as much as a can (naturally) but after I saw www.IndieRentals.com release their rates of $495 (Day) / $1,475 (Week) / $4,950 (Month) for Red One and that they will actually ship you the camera, it seems I can never rent it out for higher than those rates. As such, I will probably rent it out for exactly those rates, or maybe slightly less.
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Even IndieRentals is going to have a limited number of RED ONEs. People are going to want to rent the camera, if they can't get it in their needed time frame, they may be willing to pay more to get one within their time constraints. But don't forget, they're going to want more than just the body. They're used to renting a kit. You'll need to be able provide lenses, tripod, mattebox, etc.
 
Shawn Nelson said:
I want to be able to rent out my Red for as much as a can (naturally) but after I saw www.IndieRentals.com release their rates of $495 (Day) / $1,475 (Week) / $4,950 (Month) for Red One and that they will actually ship you the camera, it seems I can never rent it out for higher than those rates. As such, I will probably rent it out for exactly those rates, or maybe slightly less.
Click to expand...

You'll just have to do what everyone else does: sweeten the deal. Include things (like your own talents) that a pack and ship business can't. It's the classic boutique vs walmart scenario. I don't think charging a premium is going to be difficult at all. Especially since a lot of people renting aren't going to know/understand how a red workflow can efficiently manage.

In fact you can effectively rent yourself for $1000 a day and then say the camera comes free.
 
Shawn Nelson said:
Yeah, exactly, and last i checked WalMart routinely crushes all the little boutiques
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Perhaps in the 90s. There has been a recent resurgence in the appreciation for quality.
 
I think this has to be treated like any other business endeavor. You see what the market is, i.e. supply and demand, you determine your value as operator/dp/digital set technician, and you invest in ways that make profit. There's a whole lot to consider when renting gear such as the Red camera. Insurance, repair costs, etc. As long as you cover all your bases, you'll be in a good position to make some money with your camera(s).

Steve
 
Shawn Nelson said:
I want to be able to rent out my Red for as much as a can (naturally) but after I saw www.IndieRentals.com release their rates of $495 (Day) / $1,475 (Week) / $4,950 (Month) for Red One and that they will actually ship you the camera, it seems I can never rent it out for higher than those rates.
Click to expand...

somehow I doubt they can maintain those rental prices. Unless of course they just plan on renting out the camera and a battery with everything else extra. :confused:
 
And there's a good chance there won't be any available if you just need the to sub-rent the body- all or nothing is usually the rule- i.e.; no ballast or head only HMI rentals- you have to rent both to get one-
 
Well in some regards I guess I'm in a pretty good position, or hopefully will be once I'm REDy to go. Working underwater really narrows down the competition and even more so seeing as I will know my underwater housing like the back of my hand. For the cost of a camera rental plus a small fee on top I will be looking to rent the camera and operator as a complete package. An additional fee for the REDCINE conversion to the required codec to top of the deal (in a perfect world) and things could get paid back pretty quickly or at least lets hope so.

Cheers,
Mark.
 
Price-fixing is actually illegal in some places (like mine). Make sure you're not breaking any laws!
 
I think price-fixing is illegal almost everywhere, at least as far as the "western world" is concerned...

Certainly also true in the UK and, I believe, all of the EU. I'm sure the US has similar restrictions.

That said, it happens all the time (as well as service-level fixing, such as banks all taking three days to "clear" a cheque even though it happens instantly over computerised transaction protocols, although I'm not sure of the legal status of this) - it's only if you get caught that it's an issue!

As another member posted previously however, as a good socialist I'm morally opposed to the whole concept!! :)

(That last statement probably guarantees I'll never get another American visa!!)
 
Rob Lohman said:
Price-fixing is actually illegal in some places (like mine). Make sure you're not breaking any laws!
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Hi Rob,

I seem to remember a lot of price fixing in Amsterdam last year!

Stephen
 
I'd like to get an idea of what other people are charging and keep my own prices somewhere in line. This is obviously gonna be a bit different as rates are higher over here in the UK anyways, but just for a comparison I was thinking about pricing mine in line with Arri SR3 rental rates.

The IndieRentals pricing (which works out at about £300 a day) is a lot less than what I'd been considering.
 
Stephen Webb said:
I'd like to get an idea of what other people are charging and keep my own prices somewhere in line. This is obviously gonna be a bit different as rates are higher over here in the UK anyways, but just for a comparison I was thinking about pricing mine in line with Arri SR3 rental rates.

The IndieRentals pricing (which works out at about £300 a day) is a lot less than what I'd been considering.
Click to expand...

Hi Stephen,

With the Red so well priced, I don't think many people will want to rent if the price for a body only, is more than £100 a day. If a camera can be bought for the rental cost covered by say 3 jobs, one would be foolish to rent. That is IMHO why there are so many resrevations!

Stephen
 
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