The Dirty on Basic Audio

[Scott Lamoreaux]

I've posted in this thread before regarding basic audio set ups and how its 100% not my field however I'm a one man band creating mostly marketing pieces for my own real estate business and another project I'm working on so I don't really have the need to hire an expensive sound guy for day to day videos that I want to make. I will however hire a sound pro for the high end short films I plan on doing.

Can you guys give me a down and dirty run-through of some basic tips for recording sound via a boom mic for interviews?

1. I have an NTG-3, Blimp, Dead-cat, and a Zoom H6 recorder (I know not the best but I think it will work for what I need it for)
2. I'm aiming not to peak audio levels over -6 when recording
3. When listening back to the .wav files I still hear subtle background noise whether it be construction outside or whatever but it's there and a very slight "hum" - Does this mean I have too much gain?
4. What is the easiest method for a complete utter newbie for cleaning up the audio in FCPx to minimize background noise and just have clear crisp vocals?

Thank you,

Scott

 

[Tom Dowler]

1. When listening back to the .wav files I still hear subtle background noise whether it be construction outside or whatever but it's there and a very slight "hum" - Does this mean I have too much gain?
2. What is the easiest method for a complete utter newbie for cleaning up the audio in FCPx to minimize background noise and just have clear crisp vocals?

about to run out the door but wanted to address these two points:

1. that's just room noise. Almost everywhere has it
2. don't. buy Izotope's RX-5 and use that to clean up room noise / background noise. There's nothing better out there at a reasonable price.

 

[Scott Lamoreaux]

about to run out the door but wanted to address these two points:

1. that's just room noise. Almost everywhere has it
2. don't. buy Izotope's RX-5 and use that to clean up room noise / background noise. There's nothing better out there at a reasonable price.

Thank you - I downloaded a trial of RX-5 - which method do you recommend?
What is the proper DB levels to mix dialog and background music in a documentary or interview type video?

 

[Ryan Sauve]

1. Get a lav mic (I've been using the sennheiser G3 for years and the audio is nice coming out of those for interviews - make sure you learn to set them up correctly - I usually set the receiver to 0db and the transmitter to anywhere between -18db to -27db depending on the subject - make sure to test transmitter to make sure subject not peaking - I'm sure some guys will say crank the receiver up to +12db but my setup has worked really well for me). If you want room ambience, still use the boom and mix it in post according to taste (I also have the ntg3)

2. Use the Zoom 6's XLR add-on and enable backup tracks. If you don't have that add-on or want to do it manually, get an XLR splitter and send one signal to channel 1 and the other to channel 2 and set levels accordingly. I love riding my primary channel so it's just about clipping. In most cases, it does here and there and then I use the backup track's audio. Don't use the Zoom 6's limiters, they suck.

3. Use a lav mic. If you're still getting background noise, you'll have to ride those dials up to a hotter level but watch the peaking. Zoom 6 doesn't have great pre-amps but riding the levels hot has been my workaround but you've got to be really careful.

4. I use Premiere and don't typically need to clean up the audio so can't help you there.

I'm not an audio guy so don't take my word as gospel. Marc Weilage will likely chime in and tell you to get an audio guy. If he gives you any one-man-band advice though that's applicable to your situation, listen to him, he knows his shit.

Also check out jwsoundgroup.net, great resource for audio. Learn about gain staging.

 

[Scott Lamoreaux]

1. Get a lav mic (I've been using the sennheiser G3 for years and the audio is nice coming out of those for interviews - make sure you learn to set them up correctly - I usually set the receiver to 0db and the transmitter to anywhere between -18db to -27db depending on the subject - make sure to test transmitter to make sure subject not peaking - I'm sure some guys will say crank the receiver up to +12db but my setup has worked really well for me). If you want room ambience, still use the boom and mix it in post according to taste (I also have the ntg3)

2. Use the Zoom 6's XLR add-on and enable backup tracks. If you don't have that add-on or want to do it manually, get an XLR splitter and send one signal to channel 1 and the other to channel 2 and set levels accordingly. I love riding my primary channel so it's just about clipping. In most cases, it does here and there and then I use the backup track's audio. Don't use the Zoom 6's limiters, they suck.

3. Use a lav mic. If you're still getting background noise, you'll have to ride those dials up to a hotter level but watch the peaking. Zoom 6 doesn't have great pre-amps but riding the levels hot has been my workaround but you've got to be really careful.

4. I use Premiere and don't typically need to clean up the audio so can't help you there.

I'm not an audio guy so don't take my word as gospel. Marc Weilage will likely chime in and tell you to get an audio guy. If he gives you any one-man-band advice though that's applicable to your situation, listen to him, he knows his shit.

Also check out jwsoundgroup.net, great resource for audio. Learn about gain staging.

Thanks for the detailed reply Ryan.
1. I know lavs are better for this type of audio recording but I'm limited to the equipment I have at the moment. Is it possible to get clear crisp audio for interviews from a shotgun boomed overhead out of frame? Also I would prefer a lav that is hidden. I don't like seeing them in the shot.
2. Can you explain what the Zoom H6's XLR add- on is and back-up track?
3. Wouldn't riding the dial hotter create more background noise? (again I know nothing about sound so forgive me ignorance on this)

 

[Bruce Johnson]

While not addressing all your points, I was in the same boat of shooting many interviews as a one man band. I found that the audio recording capabilities of the camera to be quite good and you did not need a field sound recorder (like the Zoom H6), just record directly to the Brain using the provided audio inputs found on the Brain. The problem was audio control during recording. For that I wrote an iOS Application to control the Camera's audio settings during recording. It is call Audio R-Link and is referenced in this thread It is available on The App Store.

I would record the interviews with the Brain's two audio tracks with two types of microphones, a Shure Lav and a Rode Shotgun. Both microphones plugged directly into the Brain and controlled by the app. Doing this also eliminated the need to sync audio in post (or even hit a slate for sync) as the audio is embedded in the R3D file.

 

[Scott Lamoreaux]

While not addressing all your points, I was in the same boat of shooting many interviews as a one man band. I found that the audio recording capabilities of the camera to be quite good and you did not need a field sound recorder (like the Zoom H6), just record directly to the Brain using the provided audio inputs found on the Brain. The problem was audio control during recording. For that I wrote an iOS Application to control the Camera's audio settings during recording. It is call Audio R-Link and is referenced in this thread It is available on The App Store.

I would record the interviews with the Brain's two audio tracks with two types of microphones, a Shure Lav and a Rode Shotgun. Both microphones plugged directly into the Brain and controlled by the app. Doing this also eliminated the need to sync audio in post (or even hit a slate for sync) as the audio is embedded in the R3D file.

Thanks Bruce - What cable do I need to plug right into the brain? I have the BASE I/O expander on my Scarlet-W

 

[Ryan Sauve]

Thanks for the detailed reply Ryan.
1. I know lavs are better for this type of audio recording but I'm limited to the equipment I have at the moment. Is it possible to get clear crisp audio for interviews from a shotgun boomed overhead out of frame? Also I would prefer a lav that is hidden. I don't like seeing them in the shot.
2. Can you explain what the Zoom H6's XLR add- on is and back-up track?
3. Wouldn't riding the dial hotter create more background noise? (again I know nothing about sound so forgive me ignorance on this)

No problem.

1. If you can't use a lav, get that boom mic as close to the subject as possible. Here's a neat trick... if you're in a controlled lighting environment and the camera is locked off for the whole interview, throw the boom in the shot if you need to (as long as it's not in "camera" front of the subject and nothing behind it moves and nothing crosses behind it). Then record the same frame before and/or after the interview and overlay parts of that clean plate over the boom. You'll probably want to test this out first.

2. This is the add-on... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/981648-REG/zoom_exh_6_dual_xlr_trs_combo.html

In the settings (forget where exactly but probably under recording), there's an option for backup track. It'll record an extra track at - 6db or - 12db (forget which).

3. Yes, it'll make the background noisier but I find it better and cleaner than raising the levels in post. Just speaking from my experience over the last 4 years.

As for recording straight to camera. I've tried with my G3s and got some weird noise. Could be my camera, who knows? But make sure to test it you decide to try this.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I have an NTG-3, Blimp, Dead-cat, and a Zoom H6 recorder (I know not the best but I think it will work for what I need it for)...

I think there's better inexpensive gear out there. The biggest problem you have is that the Zoom H6 has no timecode. I don't like the F8 for a lot of reasons, but at least it does have timecode. One huge problem with all the Zoom products is that the knobs are too small to easily adjust levels while recording. Unlike cameras, where you set the exposure and then leave it alone for the entire shot, the level for sound needs to come up and down depending on how the person being recorded is speaking. And you also need to adjust the sound levels depending on what's happening in the scene and what's in the room.

I'm aiming not to peak audio levels over -6 when recording...

That's good, but one problem with this is there will sometimes be overshoots that happen so quickly, you can't see them on the meter. Better meters generally will see these. One possibility is to have a mix track, which is peak limited to prevent any clipping, and then use iso tracks at a much lower level so they'll never clip.

When listening back to the .wav files I still hear subtle background noise whether it be construction outside or whatever but it's there and a very slight "hum" - Does this mean I have too much gain?

It's hard to say. Cheap mics and cheap preamps may tend to induce a degree of hum and noise. A lot of it boils down to the acoustics in the area. Higher-quality mics -- I would put the Sennheiser MKH series high on that list -- have very little self-noise.

What is the easiest method for a complete utter newbie for cleaning up the audio in FCPx to minimize background noise and just have clear crisp vocals?

I think neither Final Cut, nor Avid, nor Premiere, nor any video editing program is ideal for dealing with sound. I think you're better off going into a sound mixing/editing program like Pro Tools and use that to optimize the mix and the soundtrack.

In a perfect world (and a quiet room), you should be able to capture great dialogue that won't need anything tweaked in the final mix except for levels. Some mixers use compression and limiting (and even EQ) for the final mix, but there's a lot of "it depends" to that decision. When you have to record in sub-optimal conditions, like rooms with air conditioning that you can't shut off, or traffic noise outside a window, or low-frequency rumble from a nearby generator, noise reduction programs like iZotope RX can work miracles in some situations.

Jay Rose's book Producing Great Sound for Film & Video has some reasonably good advice for people just starting out and students trying to improve the sound of their productions. In a lot of cases, the short version of getting good dialogue boils down to "record in a quiet place and get the microphone as close to the person speaking as possible." Using great equipment goes without saying.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

This could make an awesome thread! I'll stay and listen, to grab some of the wisdom.

I think there's better inexpensive gear out there...

Hi Marc, you've probably already noted that down somewhere. Care to share again? �� I was actually thinking about going the F8 route for timecode use. So I'd be glad to hear what else is out there that's relatively inexpensive that should be taken into account.