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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The difference between a DIT, AC, DAM on set, and do i need them?

Well not in these cases, but those things haven't been required. More like assisting the 1st AC. And the Grips. The point was more that the role is hybrid in some cases, but that I was able to devote as much time as necessary to the RED data work.
 
Different methods

Different methods

This thread reminds me of the anectdote about Antonioni supposedly asking "Who the hell are all these people" when he first saw the crew for Zabriskie Point.
 
Pana-tech said:
WOW!!! And everyone was saying Digital Cinematography is going to be so much easier... and cheaper, we don't have to buy film.. But DAM, if your AC was a DIT, you'd have it made.

Great Thread!!

Now, let's get back to this craft service girl...
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Don't forget about the makeup girl! :biggrin:
 
Every time you go out on set regardless of the camera you need to be prepared. If you go out and shoot on the Red Camera with out a Tech your gambling.. and everyones is right, you just spent 2000 on a one day rental whats the 250 to get a tech out there to determine and fix issues with the camera. Now I'm not saying that your doomed to have problems because on a feature that lasted 3 weeks, i have went a week without technical problems... i had tech questions, but in the end your Tech is also transferring footage so production wins ether way.

Dom Estarella
 
its funny.. there used to be a big request for RED techs on set, because people were so scared for something to go wrong. Things have luckily stabilized alot over the last couple months.... the bugs that remain are a little less critical ( remember when cameras wouldn't boot? ) heh heh heh...

Now as Dino is stating, we are seeing AC's come in for prep and spend a few hours learning the camera with a RED DIT, and feel comfortable enough to go out and shoot without a camera babysitter. In my opinion though, the days never go as smooth as if there is a "camera tech support blanket" for production somewhere on set, almost more politically than technically... but some AC's really feel like it's their job, budget permitting our not.

The huge demand is for the data wrangler, with some sort of workflow knowledge, that the AC can hand off cards too and not worry about what happens past the camera... and that guy knows about the camera enough to help when the camera acts up.
 
kosmos3d said:
i am a producer first, so i write what i wrote from a producers perspective first given my knowledge of the camera. having insurance on the books is one thing, having insurance by having the right crew and tools, is certainly better.
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Kosmos,

Very well said. It’s clear that you have made the Red one a successful venture due to your “hands on” approach
This camera is new; anyone with enough knowledge to put together a budget should include a Red DIT.
As owner operators we need to rise to the level of on-set professionals to insure the camera and workflow is understood and implemented properly, further insuring a good product and happy client.

The camera package and DIT will still be the best deal in town this summer and beyond!

David Birdy
412-612-8000
www.Redonenetwork.com
 
The Ninja philosophy

The Ninja philosophy

Our Ninja program scales to the client's production style.

If you have a lot of set ups in your day then we recommend a Ninja stay with the camera to speed things up, keep an eye on the long list of things that Dino & Donatello mentioned and let the 1st and 2nd ACs do their jobs. The Camera Ninja is also a good reference for the DP in judging exposure, parsing out the RAW vs Rec 709 issues and how to accurately interpret the false color screen, the RGB stoplight, etc.

Another Ninja wrangles data, knows how to check integrity of the files, exposure, focus, etc and if there are problems knows what to do next - take a wonky piece of media offline, chat with the DP about exposure issues that show up on the histogram in the RAW editor, etc. Whisper in the 1sts ear about focus issues. The data Ninja can also get involved in doing first light color correction, create a proxy driven rough cut to check continuity, match frames, keys, etc. I often pull still frames for review by the vanities (how heavy can you put on make up for 4K?) - art department and props can double check key details, the list goes on. You can really leverage the IT workflows enabled by the RedOne system by having an on set editor/post rep, particularly if the turnaround time is tight.

If the pace is slower and the whole crew is smaller, the location is more self contained, etc then it becomes more viable to have only one Ninja who primarily wrangles data but has the chops to troubleshoot the camera and keep production going when there are rough spots. Be aware that if you expect to hire someone with that skill set for $250/day you need a reality check.
 
LIONSDEN_DOMINICK said:
.. and everyones is right, you just spent 2000 on a one day rental whats the 250 to get a tech out there to determine and fix issues with the camera. Now I'm not saying that your doomed to have problems because on a feature that lasted 3 weeks, i have went a week without technical problems... i had tech questions, but in the end your Tech is also transferring footage so production wins ether way.

Dom Estarella
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$250?! No frakin' way is that ever happening!
Not even a 2AC makes that little (unless it's ultra low budget).

Hey, pass that over to me. Oh yeah, the good stuff.... <inhales>
 
I think you get what you pay for.

Most people who call them self a RED DIT don't even own a RED.

$600 per day is worth a lot more if your DIT is not a Dabbling Idiot Tech.

I believe in the power of professional who know more than adjusting menu items.

First question do you own a red?

Tek
 
how can the first question be 'do you own a RED?'

that makes no sense at all. i wonder how many Viper/Genesis/Dalsa techs own those cameras? I would say none. Or very few.

Ownership of the camera would be my last question. My first would be...'do you know what you're doing?'
 
I agree. You don't have to be an owner of a camera system to be a tech on it.

However, in the case of the RED, it helps to be an owner since most likely you are familiar with it. But that will change as more REDs become available.
 
I find this idea of a DAM being a kid hilarious especially if its a union shoot. That person has a rate and its been established, they're part of the video assist union as its master material that's being handed off by camera.

As far as the AC handling it all, all I have to say is poor AC, and stupid production. I've seen production burning through anywhere from $500 an hour to 50k an hour, so really how much is your footage worth ? Especially at a critical juncture like this when cameras are being put out with BETA builds into real world production scenarios. I've already heard too many horror stories, I don't want to hear any more.

Also in regards to having someone "check the negative" on set its invaluable, as you're not looking at master footage off that HD-SDI tap. I can personally vouch if something can go wrong with technology on set it will. The power will surge while capturing, the DAM(kid) will blow away the original quicktime file killing the audio, and that hard drive will fail, and you will have a producer screaming at the top of his or her lungs we should have shot 35.

The second anyone says "I have this nephew thats good with computers" I begin to cringe, as I know I'll be up all night because the kid didn't know to look for dead pixels.
 
Well the 250 came from an Ultra low budget Project. Red Tech / DAM.

Sorry guys.. I'm NOT in the BIG LEAGUES YET!

Oh.. and the first question you should ask is, "What type of equipment do you have and what is your work flow??" Then "How many jobs have you done?" Then "Do you know how to retrieve deleted footage?" and "Is your Name DOMINICK!?" ha ha J/k bout the last part!

But it is true the amount of knowledge, Troubleshooting, work flow and insurance a RED TECH has to offer should be above 250..

if anyone cares to share their day rates please do.
 
Jeff Brue said:
I find this idea of a DAM being a kid hilarious especially if its a union shoot. That person has a rate and its been established, they're part of the video assist union as its master material that's being handed off by camera.

As far as the AC handling it all, all I have to say is poor AC, and stupid production. I've seen production burning through anywhere from $500 an hour to 50k an hour, so really how much is your footage worth ? Especially at a critical juncture like this when cameras are being put out with BETA builds into real world production scenarios. I've already heard too many horror stories, I don't want to hear any more.

Also in regards to having someone "check the negative" on set its invaluable, as you're not looking at master footage off that HD-SDI tap. I can personally vouch if something can go wrong with technology on set it will. The power will surge while capturing, the DAM(kid) will blow away the original quicktime file killing the audio, and that hard drive will fail, and you will have a producer screaming at the top of his or her lungs we should have shot 35.

The second anyone says "I have this nephew thats good with computers" I begin to cringe, as I know I'll be up all night because the kid didn't know to look for dead pixels.
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Very accurate !

Dave
 
chuckt said:
If you record directly to a 300GB HD, you do not need a person to constantly downloading data from cards, do you?.
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One of the most dangerous comments in this thread I heard and couldn't let by!

This is like creating a MS Word document on a system with 160GB storage.
Do you wait till it's full before you perform a backup?
And most all know why. It's about RISK of losing the data you just created and the more unbacked up data on your REDDRIVE the higher the risk is.
The MTBF risk figure I feel okay about with regarding computer drives is there is a 2.5% chance in a year of a drive failing under normal office environment conditions.
So it depends on the cost of recovering ...reshooting your scene if one of those REDDRIVE disks go!
I don't even know the failure rate of the CF cards.
I feel like 8GB is okay but 16GB cards would be a tad long before you backed it up.
Of course this is dependant on whether you still have the location/set and what the shot was!!
Presently I prefer using CF cards and use the REDDRIVES for 'learning' with the camera.
I guess you'd get your DAM/DIT/2AC to regularly swap REDRIVES and wrangle files.


Dave,
 
i wonder how many Viper/Genesis/Dalsa techs own those cameras?
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Do you know any Pana-Geni DIT that does not work for or used to work for Panavision?

LOL

It takes time and real world/work experience to be a good DIT.

Other wise you are a Dabbling Idiot Tech.

Learn on your own dime not on others.

Tek
 
Great thread guys (even if it's heading toward a potential war). Keep it going!

Personally as a DP, I feel having a DIT, a 1st and a 2nd AC is a must for anything serious with the RED. The DP and 1st sure can keep an eye out for some stuff about the camera, but having the DIT is just going for full blanket protection... and I wouldn't want anything less!

When the 1st AC goes for a bathroom break and the 2nd takes up, that's great. But when something goes south on the set and I need to deal with politics/gear/schedule/filmness factor/hell, who watches out for me one the camera side? I sure have my gaffer and his best boy on the lamp side... but I don't exactly expect my 1st AC to double check my footage and make sure I maximized my dynamic range, talk the director out of a wrongly set LUT, have all the camera settings in mind, pull focus AND think ahead for all the aforementioned.

From a producer's standpoint, I feel it's very easy to justify. You sell the DIT as your 'loader' and put an emphasis on the safety it provides by doing 'pre-post', backing footage up and acting as a safety net.

Nevertheless, the question's been touched but I feel more could be said there. I don't feel the DIT has the same workload as a loader. How much do you fairly pay a DIT? Here the union rates go for roughly around 22 to 35 CAD$/h for a 1st AC.
 
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