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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Big Mistake...

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Jannard said:
Because it is as close as you are going to get to 4K for half of $10K.

Jim
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That doesn't make fully sense when the original Scarlet S35 was 5K for 7.000...

I know I'm being a pain in the ass right now, but I'm not going to invest 2½ years of savings on a camera with 'no future.'
 
It really surprises me how many people think of "today" instead of "tomorrow". Tomorrow is right around the corner...

Jim
 
Jesper Sichlau said:
That doesn't make fully sense when the original Scarlet S35 was 5K for 7.000...

I know I'm being a pain in the ass right now, but I'm not going to invest 2½ years of savings on a camera with 'no future.'
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Then don't. Pretty easy stuff. Buy whatever you feel comfortable with. We are good with that.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
I disagree with you completely... 4K sports will absolutely happen and won't cost billions. It actually won't cost any more.

Jim
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How so? I'm talking 100s maybe 1000s of new 4K broadcast cameras. New broadcast infrastructure.

I know a few people in that industry and the move from SD to HD was a major, major move that cost huge amounts of money.

Maybe you know something I don't?
 
Jim Retar said:
How so? I'm talking 100s maybe 1000s of new 4K broadcast cameras. New broadcast infrastructure.

I know a few people in that industry and the move from SD to HD was a major, major move that cost huge amounts of money.

Maybe you know something I don't?
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Apparently... :-)

Jim
 
Jim Retar said:
Unless he has designed and will be giving away 4k live broadcast cameras to ESPN, SKY etc, I don't think he does. Sorry.

I'm not talking about the ability to deliver 4K to the masses.... i'm talking about the 4K hardware.
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OK... you are right. I have lost my mind and have no idea what I'm talking about. You aren't the 1st person to say that BTW...

Jim
 
I'm not saying you don't know what you are talking about... of course you know your business very well..... i'm not sure why i'm getting hostility for talking about a field (sports) that I have worked in and know skilled sports cameramen.

There is no way the sports networks can move to 4k without huge expenditure.... that is the only point that I am saying.

If you have found a way, bravo. I'm not here to get into bad vibes with you guys, i'm just here to hopefully buy a camera. It would be nice to have sensible discussion without feeling bullied though.
 
At the moment the only two RED competitors in 4K image size are

the first DI film scans @ 4K

and the second Aaton Penelope ∆ (Delta)

that is actually a hybrid analog/digital camera and has "revamped" Aaton Dalsa® CCD sensor with 13 stops dynamic range

that can record Uncompressed RAW 16bit onboard at up to 800MB/sec in a slide-in Aaton DeltaPack (!!!???) SSD RAID

(and also simultaneously Avid DNxHD proxy files for editing purpose on a small SDHC card).

Of course that other (4K potentially!?) competitors (Arri, Sony, Panavision, Panasonic, Canon, etc...)

would like to sit already in that 4K train but they still can't get a ticket.

Why?

Just because the ticket is a codec (in the case of RED is the REDCODE RAW).

That's all very simple thing to understand.

Until 1080p alliance don't get that 4K ticket we probably have to listen always the same and old 1080p "good enough" song.
 
Jannard said:
It really surprises me how many people think of "today" instead of "tomorrow". Tomorrow is right around the corner...

Jim
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Just a word from "the border of the empire"... Here Sky and the major tv are SLOWLY moving from SD to HD. And nothing it's yet done. So I hope the Tomorrow you talking about will not be too far. Because the only thing I'm sure is that so far we are all dead : ) Don't get angry, please : ))

Andrea
 
Jim Retar said:
I'm not saying you don't know what you are talking about... of course you know your business very well..... i'm not sure why i'm getting hostility for talking about a field (sports) that I have worked in and know skilled sports cameramen.

There is no way the sports networks can move to 4k without huge expenditure.... that is the only point that I am saying.

If you have found a way, bravo. I'm not here to get into bad vibes with you guys, i'm just here to hopefully buy a camera.
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Jim... no worries on this end.

Sports is like everything else. Actually, in many ways it leads. No one is going to "sit" with what they have if there is a better option. In case you haven't noticed, the future is cheaper than the past. Budgets are there for better content and delivery. They will spend, as they always have, to deliver a better final product to their customer.

4K is here to stay. So is 3D. The fact that it is much cheaper now to update is a godsend for them... and everyone else.

Jim
 
Jim Retar said:
I'm not saying you don't know what you are talking about... of course you know your business very well..... i'm not sure why i'm getting hostility for talking about a field (sports) that I have worked in and know skilled sports cameramen.
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Don't sports broadcast people generally have replacement cycles for cameras, replacing them every three years or so?

Jim's EPICs are significantly cheaper than the Sony HD units you probably bought to switch to HD.

If Jim's Epic costs about $40k operational and Sony's HD units (if my memory serves) cost $130k operational at the time you bought them, you're obviously going to spend less, not more, on converting to 4K than you did on converting from SD to HD.

Of course there is also custom switching equipment, a subject I know nothing about. But that would have to be awfully expensive to make up for the difference in camera costs alone.

I can't speak for Jim, but I'm pretty sure that's what he means, and it seems straightforwardly obvious to me.

D
 
Jannard said:
OK... you are right. I have lost my mind and have no idea what I'm talking about. You aren't the 1st person to say that BTW...

Jim
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LOL

My guess for a while has been that the RedRay/Redcode RGB program that we hear very little about, is the next most important revolution from RED after RedRAW...

AND I'd be very surprised if Sony/Pana/Samsung et al would step back after first selling a round of "HD-Ready" panels, THen "True HD". When that's done, do you expect them to say:

"Hey that's it. Let's wrap up!"?

Cheers

G
 
Gunleik Groven said:
LOL

My guess for a while has been that the RedRay/Redcode RGB program that we hear very little about, is the next most important revolution from RED after RedRAW...
Click to expand...

Correct-o.

Jim
 
Sure, 4K sports will happen... it is just the sheer scale of a Sports network to convert is so much larger than anything else in media. Of course, they will start showing just the big games in 4K, probably in the next few years... and then roll out across the network, if it is a hit... much like they are doing with 3D right now (in England, at least).

My two points were, and I still stand by them :-)

Sports networks will be the key to getting 4K into the home.
Sports networks will be slow to move while their HD network systems are still working well (and people are happy).

My personal guess, all games in 3D in the next 1-2 years.... all games in 4K in 5-6 years.

I hope i'm wrong, I live and breath football (soccer) and 4K 3D games would be amazing.
 
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