The big choice: Epic S35 or FF35...

[Joseph Ward]

Nice find... that was back when Epic was one camera body that sold for $40K. If you want to pay that price, I'll honor the upgrade.

Jim

How are you on this site without your name being shown on the bottom of the Homepage?

 

[Daniel Browning]

How are you on this site without your name being shown on the bottom of the Homepage?

If you have basic questions about forum software, please post them in the "Off topic" section.

To answer your question, click "User CP", then "Options":

Invisible mode allows you to browse the forums without appearing in the 'Currently Active Users' lists.

 

[Joseph Ward]

If you have basic questions about forum software, please post them in the "Off topic" section.

To answer your question, click "User CP", then "Options":

Invisible mode allows you to browse the forums without appearing in the 'Currently Active Users' lists.

Thank you. I had know idea that was a software feature. I was starting to think Jim had Jedi powers or something.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Nice find... that was back when Epic was one camera body that sold for $40K. If you want to pay that price, I'll honor the upgrade.

Jim

hahahah....OWNED.

 

[zak forrest]

Nice find... that was back when Epic was one camera body that sold for $40K. If you want to pay that price, I'll honor the upgrade.

Jim

ahaha.

yeah i hope you dont think i was pointing to that post for that reason.. quite the opposite. maybe i shoulda been more clear.

everyone in my entire life is FREAKING OUT about the news.. all my friends and parents and people that do NOT CARE about camera technology at all are calling me and emailing me and freaking out =]

 

[Mark Pugh]

Nice find... that was back when Epic was one camera body that sold for $40K. If you want to pay that price, I'll honor the upgrade.

Jim

Good call. You trumped 'em. Some people may take you up on it - Mark Pederson, perhaps, so that they can start shooting 100fps full sensor. I'm very excited about the FF35.
In people's defense Jim, you can tell people that specs may change and we can count on it, but we're talking about upgrade offers, and your word... anyway, no-one has paid for an Epic yet, so no-one's being ripped off.

But while you're there... WHY AREN'T YOU OFFERING A S35 Monstro????
Offer an explanation and the issue might go away!

 

[FMG battery]

Nice find... that was back when Epic was one camera body that sold for $40K. If you want to pay that price, I'll honor the upgrade.

Jim

won't it be?.. i thought the worst should come yet w/ the rest of your price list.. am i wrong?

 

[david farland]

Ladies Ladies Ladies

Stop whining like little girls...that's my job!
Okay it doesn't seem like the value you're used to getting but how long did we wait for the first Red. Take the S35 out of the equation, keep the RedOne X sensor upgrade, wait for the Monstro and it represents same value/cost/timing we're used too.

In one way we got too much milk & honey with RedOne price/capability and a lot of us have made purchases over our usual limit. Now Jim is continuing the path with a whole new range of goodies and we're all about to spend big again. Which by the way is good value if we can recoup the value. But to a lot of us see that additional S35 step/cost/delay as a little expensive. I think what we're asking is a pricing/function in step with what we're seen to date. I think one solution may lie with having RedOne/mysteriumX sensor released at th e same time as the S35 or having a S35->FF35 upgrade subsidy.

note to Jim: 5000 people bought the R1 with accessories because it represented out of this world value. What you're hearing is 10:1 saying they feel the S35 if out of step with the usual out of this world value we're used to getting from you and what caused us to extend our budgets to you. No use comparing Red value with Sony costs/upgrades as they're strategy will never have access to you 5000(& rising) buyers. I believe you have a few tricks in your pocket thou.

phewiee,
D

 

[Mark Pugh]

Ladies Ladies Ladies

What you're hearing is 10:1 saying they feel the S35 if out of step with the usual out of this world value we're used to getting from you

Sister,
the S35 is out of this world value as well. It's just that it's not the sensor most people want in the format that most people (I think) want.
So they feel like they are being forced to buy top shelf when they want mid-range.

 

[david farland]

But while you're there... WHY AREN'T YOU OFFERING A S35 Monstro????
Offer an explanation and the issue might go away!

Mark,
That comes across rude. He doesn't owe you or anyone this explanation.
D

 

[Don King]

So they feel like they are being forced to buy top shelf when they want mid-range.

Exactly my opinion. About all Epic program actually. Scarlet could be this mid-range. If not limited to the Red high-end. I'm used to see Sony to protect their high end, not Red, I thought.

 

[Mark Pugh]

Mark,
That comes across rude. He doesn't owe you or anyone this explanation.
D

I certainly don't mean to sound rude. My apologies to Jim.
But the reason this thread exists, I think, are the questions - "Do I want to save some money and go S35 (which is what my lenses are made for, and which will be best for shooting most jobs) on a chip that Jim says is inferior to Monstro?"
... and the other question "Why should I be having to worry about this"? It wasn't an issue on the 12th, when we were all looking forward to a Monstro S35.

Anyway - I'll let other people worry about it. I'm really excited about the FF35.

Re upgrades: a $17,500 credit is absolutely fantastic, everyone's eyes are wide open, and people should be extremely happy.

 

[Sidney L. Plaut]

in regards to the 40k Epic, isnt that still the price - brain + power module + connector module...?

Hey I would love an Epic ff35 - but but but and Epic5k monstro is what we (film people) need.

I dont believe any still photographer is going to buy a cinema camera to take stills. so epic is for film people. Why change a standard, in regards to FullFrame vs s35?

RED 1, primary disadvantage over 35mm is the DR. fix that and a less compressed codec (redcode 225) and were set to go for real! no more its still not 35mm. - All the colorists i have worked with still complain about the DR, and rightly so.

s35 Epic, Monstro. Thats the one i want. nice middle class´ish. Let the bigger boys get their 6k,9k,28k....

 

[david farland]

I don't think is realistic to scupper their entire development plans. There are way too many elements we're disrupting to begin asking for S35/4K Monstro.
I say upgrade Redone (cheaply) at the same time as S35
6 months later let me trade my R1 for FF35
let whoever wants new gear asap/1+stop/125fps/ get the S35 at the same time I upgrade R1.
D

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

Jim, Jim, Jim. . .

Sidney is dead on. It IS the S35 Monstro that the film people really want. I'm only a budding film guy, but that's certainly what I want. Heck, until the 13th announcement, I was on my way to buy a nice PL zoom. And BANG. Ain't gonna do that! I won't be able to use it with a FF35 and get that 13+ stop dynamic range. If I thought I'd be able to get a S35 Monstro, I'd still buy that glass.

And I think David is dead on when he says, "let me upgrade my R1 to the Mysterium X" AND THEN LET ME HAVE MY S35 Monstro in Epic.

There is no doubt that film is dying. With that one stroke (S35 Monstro), it would soon be dead.

Stephen

 

[Emmanuel Cambier]

The thing is you can very well use your PL zoom with the FF35 with at least as good a result as on the S35.

The only disturbing factor is if some new glass comes out that takes better advantage of the FF35, but it seems most unlikely.

Unless, of course if Jim has a plan to release some FF35 cinema lenses, now that would be the winner of all lenses.

Think of it, some nice spherical lenses able to take advantage of the whole 36x24 6K of the FF35.

Since they will be releasing FF35 lenses for stills, it shouldn't be so difficult for Red to rehouse them for a nice motion set.

Or they could prepare an Anamorphic set, shooting Ana on the FF35 is mighty tempting.

Emmanuel

 

[Tom Lowe]

Jim, Jim, Jim. . .

It IS the S35 Monstro that the film people really want. I'm only a budding film guy, but that's certainly what I want. Heck, until the 13th announcement, I was on my way to buy a nice PL zoom. And BANG. Ain't gonna do that! I won't be able to use it with a FF35 and get that 13+ stop dynamic range. If I thought I'd be able to get a S35 Monstro, I'd still buy that glass.

Dude, you can use PL glass on FF35.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Dude, you can use PL glass on FF35.

Exactly.

FF35 Monstro EPIC is $7K more than the S35 EPIC w/ Mysterium-X. How much cost savings do we guess there is if RED were to manufacture a smaller Monstro sensor and produce yet another model... I'd be willing to bet there is no advantage to going with a S35 Monstro version. If you want Monstro, go with the FF35 model. Install PL mount and shoot away... You also have the added benefit of the larger full frame sensor for glass that has larger coverage area (some PL glass does) or anamorphics. Or swap out the mount for Canon, Nikon, RED Mount and use FF35 lenses.

EPIC FF35 is the one that all the film people really want.

 

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Exactly.
EPIC FF35 is the one that all the film people really want.

They just want it sooner than later

Emmanuel

 

[Tom Lowe]

Exactly.

FF35 Monstro EPIC is $7K more than the S35 EPIC w/ Mysterium-X. How much cost savings do we guess there is if RED were to manufacture a smaller Monstro sensor and produce yet another model... I'd be willing to bet there is no advantage to going with a S35 Monstro version. If you want Monstro, go with the FF35 model. Install PL mount and shoot away... You also have the added benefit of the larger full frame sensor for glass that has larger coverage area (some PL glass does) or anamorphics. Or swap out the mount for Canon, Nikon, RED Mount and use FF35 lenses.

EPIC FF35 is the one that all the film people really want.

This sums it up. The nail has met the coffin on this topic.