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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The big choice: Epic S35 or FF35...

roryhinds said:
We need a S35 sensor that gives us great 4k, be it 5k or 6k pixel count in camera
In post we need 4k max, anything over is not supported and unworkable.
Click to expand...

That's about all they appear to record in Super 35mm mode based on the sensor size and resolution math.

I do find it a little bit funny that calling the cameras "brains" kind of takes the sting away from buying new ones or replacements. They're really just full-on cameras... the accessories simply transfer from one camera body to the next. It's like buying a 435 with magazines and then eventually getting a 235 as well. Your 435 magazines and accessories will work with the 235... which is awesome... call it what you want but you just bought a whole new camera [not a "brain"]. :)

Replace "brain" with "camera" and it all starts to hurt a bit more.

That's why I'm just going to buy the FF35 and call it good. :)
 
IF everyone starts leaning towards the FF35, I vote to kill the S35 and make the FF35 a couple grand cheaper as they will be selling more of that model.

No one I've talked to personally is considering the S35. If the S35 were Monstro spec'ed they might be.

Personally I'm crossing my fingers for a lucky scratch ticket to get the 645...
 
Brook Willard said:
I do find it a little bit funny that calling the cameras "brains" kind of takes the sting away from buying new ones or replacements. They're really just full-on cameras... the accessories simply transfer from one camera body to the next. It's like buying a 435 with magazines and then eventually getting a 235 as well. Your 435 magazines and accessories will work with the 235... which is awesome... call it what you want but you just bought a whole new camera [not a "brain"]. :)

Replace "brain" with "camera" and it all starts to hurt a bit more.
Click to expand...

This is true for the film guys, and people with film backgrounds - but for video guys and, even Digital Cinema guys, this is obviously not the case historically.

Many times in video has there been technical increases in the chip side of things, but strange changes or compromises in in the rest of the cameras body or design to go along with the new technology that has made the upgrade in chip accompanied with a downgrade in other areas.

All too often do people in the electronics industry feel the sting of having to upgrade to a technology they need, but give up the previously available features on a model of the older technology that they WANTED, but did not get migrated across (because of cost/oversight/change of thinking by the electronics company, whatever.).

And, if all this means is that digital technology is catching up with film technology in terms of being a suitable, well catered for medium, isn't that really the whole point of RED?
 
I wonder if this offer is still valid:

Jannard said:
OK, I have had plenty of sleep.

RED Digital Cinema announces the development of "Monstro", the Mysterium® sensor of the future. "Monstro" is the sensor that that removes all limitations in current sensor technology. It is expected to arrive the end of 2010.

"Monstro" will be a free upgrade to Epic, which will ship standard with the Mysterium X sensor in 2009.

We fully understand that our customers want resolution, maximum speed, incredible dynamic range, and low light capability. "Monstro" represents the final frontier in the digital vs. film struggle.

The RED "Mysterium" sensor was a breakthrough that got the RED ONE on the map. Mysterium X takes RED to the next level. "Monstro" is the platform that surpasses all expectations. Sleep tight... the RED Sensor Team is awake.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
Michael Ragen said:
IF everyone starts leaning towards the FF35, I vote to kill the S35 and make the FF35 a couple grand cheaper as they will be selling more of that model.
Click to expand...
Economies of scale can bring a value-added (do not make confusion with VAT though) for all of us: provider and customers -- no one can live without the other side.
 
Pawel Achtel said:
I wonder if this offer is still valid:
Click to expand...

NO.

That was for the old Epic design. Completely irrelevant to the conversation today.

The bottom line is, if you want Monstro, wait for FF35. It will give you so many more options in the long term anyway. FF35 will be the king of the hill in digital cinema.
 
Tom said:
NO.

That was for the old Epic design. Completely irrelevant to the conversation today.
Click to expand...

Why is it completely irrelevent, Tom?

I guess because monstro isn't being offered in the same size as the mysterium-x, which is an arbitrary decision, as Jim makes the sensors.

Anyway you're right - the FF35 is the way to go, and that's fine. The S35 mysterium-x will be a lemon when monstro is released.
 
Mark Pugh said:
Why is it completely irrelevent, Tom?

I guess because monstro isn't being offered in the same size as the mysterium-x, which is an arbitrary decision, as Jim makes the sensors.

Anyway you're right - the FF35 is the way to go, and that's fine. The S35 mysterium-x will be a lemon when monstro is released.
Click to expand...

It's irrelevant because that post was made when Epic was a totally different kind of camera. Back then there was not a FF35 and S35, just one 5K Epic. Now, if you want Monstro, you simply order it and wait for it.

It's absurd to seriously think that Jim would sell an S35 Epic, then waste $10K giving people free upgrades to Monstro a few months later when they could have simply waited and ordered the Monstro. What is this, the Jim Jannard Charity Company?

I wish people would think before asking him for stuff like this when he has already been so generous.
 
Tom said:
It's irrelevant because that post was made when Epic was a totally different kind of camera. Back then there was not a FF35 and S35, just one 5K Epic. Now, if you want Monstro, you simply order it and wait for it.

It's absurd to seriously think that Jim would sell an S35 Epic, then waste $10K giving people free upgrades to Monstro a few months later when they could have simply waited and ordered the Monstro. What is this, the Jim Jannard Charity Company?

I wish people would think before asking him for stuff like this when he has already been so generous.
Click to expand...

I'm happy with the explanation, just wanted to clarify. I have no problem waiting for the FF35, which seems to be the most desired spec among all other choices.
 
Jim made the offer (in principal) to provide a free monstro upgrade to a mysterium-x Epic. Pretty simple statement. Nice guy, for sure, okay...too nice and in the same way Red has delivered far more than ever initially offered, then so the pendulum needs to swing back a little. Fair..no sweat!!
I can see his vision/designs for the support electronics for the S35 to have changed and won't (easily/cheaply) support the Monstro as he thought at the time
No one expects/expected or would hold him to it!

But here's the thing, maybe with the 'slight' negative reaction to the R1/S35/FF35 migration path, the upgrade path to the monstro can be lubricated some way and Red's principal of rendering obsolescence obselete can dodge a $28K bullet.

D
 
I just want a S35 Epic with Monstro dynamic range. Period.

Sadly, unless things change, that just ain't gonna happen.

Stephen
 
Tom said:
I wish people would think before asking him for stuff like this when he has already been so generous.
Click to expand...

From what I see people aren't worried about upgrade paths so much as just having being able to have a monstro S35.

And Jim's thrown kerosene by denying there was ever an upgrade offered. Which I'm terribly afraid is BS.

The only way that the Epic S35 has been radically changed is that it is part of a system of user-defined customization, and that it has been down-graded to a mysterium-x only sensor size, DESPITE THE FACT THAT A S35 MONSTRO WOULD BE THE REAL SWEET SPOT IN THE RANGE.

Tom - chill out - most of these people you are shrieking at love Jim as much as you, and are stating they'll be happy with the FF35 monstro. They are just pushing for that option that they were looking forward to, which would give the best results for the best price, on the format they shoot on most.
Raising it as an issue seems mighty sensible to me.
 
Mark, where I'm coming from is, we saw this happen last time, and it really ticked off Red and Jim and almost caused him to leave the boards for good.

I have no problem with people wanting Monstro in S35. That's a legit request. What I find upsetting are the very small minority who are somehow insinuating that Jim should "honor" the Monstro upgrade thing that is totally old news, something he was talking about related to a totally different, old Epic camera design, before this DSMC system even came along.
 
Mark Pugh said:
And Jim's thrown kerosene by denying there was ever an upgrade offered. Which I'm terribly afraid is BS.
Click to expand...

Please show me...

Jim
 
Tom said:
Mark, where I'm coming from is, we saw this happen last time, and it really ticked off Red and Jim and almost caused him to leave the boards for good.

I have no problem with people wanting Monstro in S35. That's a legit request. What I find upsetting are the very small minority who are somehow insinuating that Jim should "honor" the Monstro upgrade thing that is totally old news, something he was talking about related to a totally different, old Epic camera design, before this DSMC system even came along.
Click to expand...

Tom, I don't see why the DSMC system should take away the sweet spot in the line-up away as an option.
An explanation would clear up a lot. People suspect the decision is purely business related, and that seems like a fair assumption.
May be the upgrade isn't viable due to all the guts of the camera needing to be replaced. Fair enough.

Anyway, people can see the options now, and buy the monstro if that's what they want - so there's NO UPGRADE PLAN NEEDED!
 
Jannard said:
Please show me...
Click to expand...

It's right here:

Jannard said:
I, Jim Jannard, of RED Digital Cinema, being of sound mind and body, do hereby make, publish and declare that all RED ONE owners shall receive a free upgrade to Monstro. Henceforth shall all believers be entitled to the desire of their heart. And a pony.
Click to expand...

Here is the link to where you said that:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=324929&postcount=14

It's also one of my favorite posts.
 
Jannard said:
Please show me...

Jim
Click to expand...

Jannard said:
OK, I have had plenty of sleep.

RED Digital Cinema announces the development of "Monstro", the Mysterium® sensor of the future. "Monstro" is the sensor that that removes all limitations in current sensor technology. It is expected to arrive the end of 2010.

"Monstro" will be a free upgrade to Epic, which will ship standard with the Mysterium X sensor in 2009.

We fully understand that our customers want resolution, maximum speed, incredible dynamic range, and low light capability. "Monstro" represents the final frontier in the digital vs. film struggle.

The RED "Mysterium" sensor was a breakthrough that got the RED ONE on the map. Mysterium X takes RED to the next level. "Monstro" is the platform that surpasses all expectations. Sleep tight... the RED Sensor Team is awake.

Jim
Click to expand...

I thinks this is what the confusion is about. We all should realize ''things change''.
 
Tom said:
It's irrelevant because that post was made when Epic was a totally different kind of camera. Back then there was not a FF35 and S35, just one 5K Epic. Now, if you want Monstro, you simply order it and wait for it.

It's absurd to seriously think that Jim would sell an S35 Epic, then waste $10K giving people free upgrades to Monstro a few months later when they could have simply waited and ordered the Monstro. What is this, the Jim Jannard Charity Company?

I wish people would think before asking him for stuff like this when he has already been so generous.
Click to expand...
what are you waiting for tom?.. a gold medal for your extreme fanboyism?.. do not forget this is not the jannard charity company.. ehehehehehe
 
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