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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Test test test... blog blog blog.

dennys bisogno said:
And with Andy's comment, let's all have a virtual Beer :cheers2: take the good parts of this thread and move on...
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Well, as an old timer, I need warm milk! Too old for Beer...

:anti-old:

Couldn't find a Milk Smiley, but the above made me laugh.
 
Rob Ruscher said:
Good point. The more assholes we have in the field the better...
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I might come across like being an ass to you. But you need to also think of it the other way around aswell, many people here at Reduser have invested quite heavily with their private money in camera tech as RED / scarlet in particular.
From their point of view your little one day test shoot film is not the promotion they are looking for. As it actually makes the scarlet look so shitty that I can not believe it's not done on purpose.
If you where a stand up guy, I think you should take that film of the web or type all over it that the images are not for comparison. Since they are not in any way showing the potential of any of these cameras as the people making the tests had absolutely no clue how to handle these cameras or the footage delivered from them.


It's also very frustrating to see that you state that scarlet is a camera that should be owned by the user, "all the hotkeys of the side handle etc" Well the other cameras did not have a side handle did they? It's kind of comparing a normal car with a car that has a camping trailer in the back and saying that the car with the camper hooked on is to messy hard to drive in reverse or such. As the side handle does not come with the camera but is possible to use if wanted. Basically a scarlet with a touch screen is far less buttons to get use to, or a scarlet with a redmote attached is like the F55 / alexa menu and it's remote. So talking about 3 difffent setup without stating what comes with what or what is possible to buy and use for this and that camera is really not that informative.

Kind of like saying I hate that camera because the helicopter attached to it so damm hard to fly....
 
Matt Ryan said:
I wanted to comment constructively on the Planet 5D blog but for some reason comments were disabled, so naturally this thread is where the posts went.
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Since I've just acquired the cinema5D forums, I'm closing comments on all new posts and asking for people to comment on the story in the forums and there's a big note at the bottom that says:


Comment on this story in the new planet5D forums

Maybe I need to make that bigger or more obvious if people aren't seeing it! :)

Thanks for your kind comments and apology.

And I'm still welcoming comments on that story in the planet5D forum ;)
 
Lliam Worthington said:
Rob, credit for your post. Wishing you all the best.

Mitch and Rob, much as I want to move on and I don't want to be provocative, but I feel this whole post behind your back, wrong place stuff, must be addressed. I'm a Scarlet owner. You made a test about the Scarlet. Sent the test about the scarlet to me. And I posted about it on the Scarlet forum. As it is full of Scarlet owners and users. I've accepted your point that "you" feel it would have been of better value to be on your forum Mitch. But I'm not going to dispute whether I should post a test about the Scarlet on the Scarlet forum. Because it was panned is irrelevant, if not without good reason. And as unfortunate as that maybe for all involved, it doesn't mitigate it's need or validity in being discussed anywhere. But especially here. As this is the community it stands to most significantly impact upon. I honestly find it bizarre I need to iterate this.

You have asked people on here consider Rob's feelings and have empathy with him. Fair enough. And most have. Along with the outrage over the test and some digs about attire - which I didn't even notice Rob and couldn't give lees than two shits about - this thread has both gracious and humble apologies, constructive advice, reasoned criticisms, and well wishes. I actually think that speaks highly of those people and of REDuser. Especially if you will consider the flip side, which has still not really been conceded to be honest, and is why this thread exists. Matt just spoke of it very succinctly. It is not a water cooler syndrome Mitch. And it is not insignificant. As tests that are made and published wide spread by you, may very well affect the livelihood and welfare of others. There are people on REDuser right now very upset about their ability to gain acceptance for Scarlet in their markets. And I, like many others I'm sure, have to deal with a lot of misconceptions and bagging of RED. At the end of the day, really, let's all just agree to look after each other better. And if was in the US Rob, I'd very happily give you all the time in the world to learn and shoot a Scarlet.

Best Wishes

Lliam
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Lliam,

I am very impressed with the way the users here have responded. Serious good discussion.

The water cooler analogy wasn't meant as disrespectful, just a "real world" analogy to try to make my point. Sorry if it was offensive. And I agree, the conversation is significant and we've all learned something.

I will disagree with you to the end (which we'll likely never resolve because we both seem stubborn HA!) that your first post should have been on planet5D.

Nobody outside of this forum is benefiting from this learning. My readers will gain a little benefit thru Rob's and my experience, but it is much less knowledge than if any of you had posted on planet5D. Right now, it is mainly knowledge staying within the tightly knit community here.

Lliam Worthington said:
There are people on REDuser right now very upset about their ability to gain acceptance for Scarlet in their markets. And I, like many others I'm sure, have to deal with a lot of misconceptions and bagging of RED.
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Here's the feeling I'm taking away (which I'm sure you'd disagree with, but this is my perception from reading this thread)... REDusers want the world to appreciate the Scarlet, but don't want to share that information outside this forum because this is the "best" place to discuss it. In my opinion, you should be out telling the world and trying to "gain acceptance for Scarlet" in other places.

I'm still very willing to accept Scarlet posts from anyone who wants to "tell the world"

NAB:

I do appreciate all of the thoughtful considered comments and have new found respect for many of you. I'll definitely be at NAB and would love to bump into RED fans. If you see a guy in a black shirt that says "planet5D" on it, that's me! Stop me and say hi! But please don't punch me ;)
 
Rob,
even when learning something new always put your best work out there, be your harshest critic, otherwise other ppl will be.
Maybe next time look at your work and ask "Did I cover all my bases?" "Did I rush?" "Did I learn enough?" "Did I do enough homework?" etc.. I know it's hard but it is necessary to put your best foot forward in this business even at an ameture level, also make sure you at least tell ppl your videos are, from at this point in time coming from an amateur point of view, there is no shame in such a statement, we all have to start some where and best example that come to mind is Dave Dougdale http://www.learningdslrvideo.com/ Hope this helps in any way.
I wish you luck & keep your chin up and keep working to master your craft & never let anyone discourage you! Remember even if your test was flawless there will always be negative non constructive noise out there, just tune it out. Also best barometer for successes is if you and your core audience think it's cool, but with that said still bear in mind, you have to be your harshest critic! Always put your best work out there. :thumbsup:
 
Rob Ruscher said:
If there is one thing we can agree on it is that the Red is not a camera you can just turn on for the first time and shoot. I didn't do my homework before hand. Maybe I was cocky and thought I could figure out any camera on the spot. Let's just say I learned my lesson.
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You have my total respect. This is the complete opposite of disingenuousness. I like it when people are straightforward.
 
I have to agree with Bjorn here.

The first post you made here was ok, but calling people assholes in not really good form on any forum.

You both have come in here apologetic and explaining how it feels lousy to be bashed, but calling anyone an asshole is out of line.

The more I read this thread (and I do usually stay away from these) the more trolly it feels, with all these plugs to another website.

Bjorn has clarified a lot of stuff in his post and he should not be called an asshole and he did not start name calling. He made a simple plain honest statement.

I don't know Bjorn and he does not need defending, you just have to look at his work and that will answer a lot of your questions.


David




Björn Benckert said:
I might come across like being an ass to you. But you need to also think of it the other way around aswell, many people here at Reduser have invested quite heavily with their private money in camera tech as RED / scarlet in particular.
From their point of view your little one day test shoot film is not the promotion they are looking for. As it actually makes the scarlet look so shitty that I can not believe it's not done on purpose.
If you where a stand up guy, I think you should take that film of the web or type all over it that the images are not for comparison. Since they are not in any way showing the potential of any of these cameras as the people making the tests had absolutely no clue how to handle these cameras or the footage delivered from them.


It's also very frustrating to see that you state that scarlet is a camera that should be owned by the user, "all the hotkeys of the side handle etc" Well the other cameras did not have a side handle did they? It's kind of comparing a normal car with a car that has a camping trailer in the back and saying that the car with the camper hooked on is to messy hard to drive in reverse or such. As the side handle does not come with the camera but is possible to use if wanted. Basically a scarlet with a touch screen is far less buttons to get use to, or a scarlet with a redmote attached is like the F55 / alexa menu and it's remote. So talking about 3 difffent setup without stating what comes with what or what is possible to buy and use for this and that camera is really not that informative.

Kind of like saying I hate that camera because the helicopter attached to it so damm hard to fly....
Click to expand...
 
I think since many of us here are owner operators of Red systems it is easy to get defensive of our investments when put under fire in such a review. I have personally worked with Rob in the past and he is a professional in every sense of the word even if he is not yet fully skilled up on the systems under review. I own a Scarlet, have operated the BMC, and while I haven't used the F5, I have used the F3 and the many variations of Sony's EX line and still feel that Red is the best image and my favorite camera to work with for reasons that I have developed from a full year of using it, not only a few hours. So to Rob if you feel like trekking up to Baltimore I extend the opportunity to you to get some more hands on time with the Scarlet.
 
Everyone gets to make mistakes.

Calling people asshole when you have four posts in a forum is not good.

I'm sure Rob is great but everyone should know that name calling is not tolerated on Reduser.
 
Martin Whittier said:
I think since many of us here are owner operators of Red systems it is easy to get defensive of our investments when put under fire in such a review. I have personally worked with Rob in the past and he is a professional in every sense of the word even if he is not yet fully skilled up on the systems under review. I own a Scarlet, have operated the BMC, and while I haven't used the F5, I have used the F3 and the many variations of Sony's EX line and still feel that Red is the best image and my favorite camera to work with for reasons that I have developed from a full year of using it, not only a few hours. So to Rob if you feel like trekking up to Baltimore I extend the opportunity to you to get some more hands on time with the Scarlet.
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Thanks Martin I really appreciate that. Let's talk about that off this thread. I would love the chance to get instruction on the Red. Lunch is on me!

Bjorn I do apologize for that. I just got bashed on 6 pages on a forum I've never been on. I then was able to state my claim and people began giving me useful information. Then you have to say "It's all good, the more people out there that does not have a clue of what they are doing the better..." If you would have said your second comment instead of that, it would have been so much better. Your second comment shows that not only do you know what your talking about, but you stick up for Red owners. Your first comment was just disrespectful. What I said was stupid. My apologies.

And David, I am not one to name call. Have you looked at the beginning posts of this thread? "everyone should know that name calling is not tolerated on Reduser." I don't see you commenting on their posts.

Either way I am not here to argue, I am here to learn.
 
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Rob Ruscher said:
Thank you all for your comments and critique. I will be using it all to better myself and company.
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As a recent Scarlet purchaser a few tips I have here.

Everything can be done using the touch screen, This I've found makes it an easy camera to pick up if you lack experience in anything similar. Not as easy as going from 2 similar cameras, so your choice of the sony there makes a lot of sense.

The side handle can also operate all the menus in a reasonable intuitive way.

Most if not all of the buttons can be reprogrammed, this as you say can make a rental confusing, one option is to set it up the 1st time you use it and use a REDmag to transfer it to a laptop or similar, then every subsequent time you can quickly set your own in. This method also works for looks etc.


I'd still advise using lenses from the same range at very least for tests, comparative tests need as many constants as you can to be worth much, otherwise you leave the option that its what you've left as variables that's the difference, not what you are actually testing.

The decision to put out the video before you could access the footage from the Sony is your biggest mistake in my books, it didn't look good for you or the camera. It made you look less competent than I suspect you really are (and thus made other decisions look more questionable than they were) and made the camera look useless from a workflow perspective (RED is often slammed for a more complex workflow than others, for many applications fairly, but I've never seen anyone claim it couldn't be got at at all). I'd have waited a day or so to a week to find some solution even if it was a bit of a hack and mentioned it was tricky in the video.

One last bit of advice, try not to take things too personally (hard I know) especially on the interweb where tone is hard to convey, and easy to misread.
 
Thanks Peter that is great advice. We have found that you can take the F5 through DaVinci Resolve and get a ProRes file. Agreed that I should have waited a little longer to figure that out. I agree I probably took what was said too personally and can definitely work on that as well.

Can you (or anyone for that matter) point me in a direction for where to start reading about the Scarlet? Quick start guide, how to program the buttons and save the configuration, best practices etc?
 
Rob, Red.com under downloads has the full instruction manual. Also Phil Holland put together a real nice quick reference guide you can download from this forum, you might just have to do a little searching for it.
 
Hey Lliam I just wanted to thank you for posting that video up here (not sarcastic). Although at first I was a little upset and frustrated, it motivated me to keep learning, recognize mistakes I made and ultimately seek out training with the Red. I have to say after a lot of reading/researching, and even a half day of training, I am really loving the Scarlet. I still have much to learn but enjoying it and can't believe how good this camera looks when done right. Thanks again for the kick in the a$$.

Anyone out there looking for an AC who is passionate and eager to learn please let me know. I have a list of references that can verify my work ethic and attitude on set.
 
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