Tell me why?

[Jonas Nyström]

To be red today at the Swedish Society of Cinematographers website. An article on the 13 november statement about Epic & Scarlet ends like this:

(in translation)

"It feels like the RED ONE is outdated already next year, and it seems as it is the RED ONE owners who had paid for the development of this camera, which is a prototype which never should gone to market, without to be tested with able-bodied photographers and posthouses"

Sounds f*cking outrageous in my ears. But still; why do the still write things like this? My own guess; old school cinematographers is not to happy about the new democratic film technique.

I gave them a good answer though... :devil:

 

[Peter Karlsson]

I've read that also.. I didn't even bother to comment...

I still meet people, saying. -But come on, there must be something bad about this camera? Why are some people always looking for flaws, instead of looking at the beauty of it?

 

[JanneJansson]

hehe, old farts, they are just jealous

Here is the link:
http://fsfsweden.se

 

[Dan Hudgins]

Results...

Results...

I think people who have REDONE know that they were involved in development, and what is important to them is that they were able to get results.

The life of cameras will get shorter and shorter like the life of computer and software products, the days of a 2709 are gone, cameras made today will not be in use 80 years from now...

 

[Simon Valderrama]

Having a RED ONE today and being unhappy because of EPIC is like having the most beautiful woman in the world as a girlfriend and being unhappy because in a year or two there will be a younger one and she will be the second most beautiful woman in the world. hahah ...
I mean, anyone can be unhappy forever if he likes to be unhappy ...

 

[Steven-Marc C.]

Livin' in the future

Livin' in the future

All this turmoil around Red One and announced, but as yet non-available, Epic and Scarlet cameras makes me think about these Springsteen lyrics:

A letter come blowin' in on an ill wind
Somethin' 'bout me and you
Never seein' one another again
Yeah, well I knew it'd come
Still I was struck deaf and dumb
Like when we kissed, that taste of blood on your tongue

Don't worry Darlin', now baby don't you fret
We're livin' in the future and none of this has happened yet
Don't worry Darlin', now baby don't you fret
We're livin' in the future and none of this has happened yet

A song to play to your Red One to keep it from feeling like an "obsolete prototype"!


It's just a camera...

 

[Stephen Williams]

(in translation)

"It feels like the RED ONE is outdated already next year, and it seems as it is the RED ONE owners who had paid for the development of this camera, which is a prototype which never should gone to market, without to be tested with able-bodied photographers and posthouses"

Sounds f*cking outrageous in my ears.:

Hi,

I am not sure why you are outraged at the article at all. It must be hard for an owner operator, historically renting electronic equipment not been the way to make a quick buck.

Stephen

 

[Simon Valderrama]

The Red One is still a prototype. The sound side of it is still very lacking. If you'd bought a Sony camera in the state a Red One was in, you'd demand a refund.

actually i owned many sony cameras and now that i have a RED ONE i realize i should have asked for a refund back then.
i think HDV is the worst fraud ever ... HD signal stuffed on a DV tape, c'mon. THAT'S vaporware.

 

[Jonas Nyström]

Hi,

I am not sure why you are outraged at the article at all. It must be hard for an owner operator, historically renting electronic equipment not been the way to make a quick buck.

Stephen

Sorry, I don't really get the message.

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

"It feels like the RED ONE is outdated already next year, and it seems as it is the RED ONE owners who had paid for the development of this camera, which is a prototype which never should gone to market, without to be tested with able-bodied photographers and posthouses"

Sounds like somebody who does not own the camera. Bit amusing if one takes into account all the other (4K) cameras available at the same cost.

 

[Jonas Nyström]

Red still requires a lot of technical knowledge that I don't think half the people buying this camera system understand.

What do you base this statement on?

There's a lot of 'switch on, point and shoot' users and attitudes I read on here and elsewhere, hiring themselves out all of a sudden as full blown cinematographers. Being a cinematographer isn't an overnight thing. It takes years to learn. Buying a Red means nothing. It is not a golden ticket.

Oh really, does it take years - you don't say. Stating the obvious, like you are talking to a child. I take it for you don't see yourself as one of the "sudden full blown cinematographers"

It's just another camera.

Well it's not. RED will rewrite the base for filming, and allready has. Film and goodlooking HD filmtechnique is no longer exclusive for a few DPs as before. That's why it's democratic. You are quite obstinate in your opinions. Sorry, if it's not in line with your wishes Mr Frosty, but I think you have to live with it or leave the business. And more rude posts won't help you.

 

[Steven-Marc C.]

If the Red One is just another camera, where are the other ones? I'd be very interested in hearing about other $25k 35mm size sensor cameras that are currently shipping. Prototype or not prototype.

 

[Darren Orange]

Point is things are going to change get better. Think about how people who bought the Viper or F23's feel. RED ONE is still a better camera than anything else on market right now and if you only thing better is a RED camera then well cool. The better part is that over the next year the Vipers and F23's should likely lose most of their value. Think about what an F23 should be worth. RED should at some point over take the price points of these older cameras. Just my thoughts.

 

[Allan Stallard]

Actually getting anything useable out of the Red still requires a lot of technical knowledge that I don't think half the people buying this camera system understand.

Half the people who shell out 30K or so don't have the technical knowledge to shoot this format properly!? Yikes! I better get my eyes checked! :whistling:

 

[Stephen Williams]

Sorry, I don't really get the message.

Hi,

The Swedish Society of Cinematographers make some very good points which you are unable to see as a result of your own FUD. RED is still a very good camera but Epic & Scarlet will have advantages.

Stephen

 

[Christopher Adams]

Amuzing

Amuzing

There will always be bigger and better. Each year new models etc. Though if
I had to guess we are in for a very cinematic and beautiful future for images.
Epic and scarlet will give us wonderful images at so much more affordable prices. Keep in mind with good optics and good skills this will be eye candy
like none other. I was watching a tutorial the other day in AE to make
video shot with a popular 1/3 HD camcorder "look more cinematic" It was
many many steps. Once it was done I paused it then brought up a frame from the latest trailer for knowing. Suddenly I realized that "Any" RED camera will look sooooo much better from the start then trying to make footage look like it was shot on film instead of DV or HD.

Its an exciting time in film-making and when compared to things like the F23 or other "expensive" cameras even a 2/3 fixed lens scarlet will look great in the right hands. Shoot and be happy.
This party is just getting started!

Point is things are going to change get better. Think about how people who bought the Viper or F23's feel. RED ONE is still a better camera than anything else on market right now and if you only thing better is a RED camera then well cool. The better part is that over the next year the Vipers and F23's should likely lose most of their value. Think about what an F23 should be worth. RED should at some point over take the price points of these older cameras. Just my thoughts.

 

[David Dennis]

MrFrosty, it is likely that you are right. The day most of the people who own this camera took it home, they did not know the full story of how to operate it. It's new; it uses brand new technology and brand new workflow. And this is true whether the first project shot on RED was their first project or their 500th.

It is true that buying a camera doesn't make you an instant cinematographer, but you surely cannot become a cinematographer without a camera! Everyone needs to learn. I think most people who have a $30k investment in the camera can somehow learn how to use it since they are powerfully motivated. The good news is that at least it doesn't cost $7,000 worth of film and processing in order to create your first film. That makes it take a lot less time and effort to learn how to light and how to set up a camera than in the "bad old days" of super-expensive film.

It seems to me that since RED does have happy high-end customers, many of who have now made released feature films with it, that it can be considered "here". To say it's "not there yet" seems to give it too little credit. Every camera that has ever existed has problems and workarounds and this will be more true as time passes and cameras become more like little computers.

D

 

[Jonas Nyström]

Hi,

The Swedish Society of Cinematographers make some very good points which you are unable to see as a result of your own FUD. RED is still a very good camera but Epic & Scarlet will have advantages.

Stephen

Stephen

I don't have any Fear, Uncertainty, or Doubt. RED has been quite profitable for me so far. Epic will be even better.

The point with article was that RED is camera not good enough to go to the market. I don't think you got the message.

And please don't put any FUD on me, keep it for yourself. :angry02:

 

[Peter Karlsson]

I never made a movie, and probably never will. I will never become a cinematographer...

So why did I buy a Red!? Maybe because I've done my fair amount of chromakeying on garbage material coming from DV, HDV and HD material.. I said to myself, that I will never touch a project with bad footage again. Since I got my Red, keying has actually been FUN! I also have shot fire, glitter, feathers, dust, ice and alot of other elements for VFX stuff. And you know what.. My prototype camera actually have delivered beautiful footage for me everytime!

Yesterday, friends of mine asked to borrow my Red cause they couldn't 3D track footage that they filmed with their Sony camera, because of the ugly compression made the tracking impossible (It tried to track compression artifacts as tracking points, haha).. They never shot Red before, but I explain the menus in 2 minutes, and waited for them to call me asking me how to opreate the camera.. They never called until they were in front of Redcine and said how totally impressed they are with the footage..

So, people saying that this "prototype" camera shouldn't be on the market seems to believe that everyone either bought it to become the next big cinematographer, or to rent it out and earn heaps of money. Maybe most people bought it because this camera actually captures nice images? And to use it for whatever you want to use it for?

 

[Jonas Nyström]

Please lock this thread, it's now completely off topic. An now full of personal bashing, mostly from Mr "IT'S JUST A CAMERA" Frosty (who are you anyway? Heard about the real name policy?).