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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Telecine

Just curious about what you think the most effective way would be to go about this?
 
Sorry...I guess that Im just thinking about how you would most effectively deliver the footage to the colorist if that was something that you wanted to do...Im sure that it all just depends on who you are using and if they are prepared to work with content from a digital medium as opposed to just throwing the film in there.

I just love the process of sitting in on my film transfers and having my colorist styalize my footage according to preference...It would be fun to be able to do that with footage from this camera eventually.
 
Maybe telecine isn't the right word to use here because I understand what it means...I used it pretty loosley when trying to bring up the topic of color correction with a colorist as opposed to just doing it yourself...
 
So basically you're talking about final color correction. That's completely up to you and your colorist.

REDCINE will do the equivalent of a one-light transfer. Once that's cut and you have your final EDL, you pass it through REDCINE and get your online footage out the other end. Lets assume a 4K workflow.

You could export REDCODE if your colorist could handle it. You could go all out and export a TIFF sequence or DPX files [can REDCINE create DPX files?]. Long story short you just get to make whatever format you decide to finish in. Pass that through your final color correction and you're in business. The decision is up to you and your established workflow.
 
Thanks for your time to help better clarify things for me Brook. Im still figuring things out over here...Very appreciated.
 
This is a very valid question. Of the two common stages of telecine (onelight / dailies transfer and select scene transfer / final color grade) REDCINE will mercifully provide us with a solution for at least one.

ONE-LIGHTS - Redcine's primary color grading tools should aptly take care of onelights, and I expect the market to respond in three ways: The first solution (but last out the gate) will be post houses who will invest in Redcine software run on G5s, or something... The second solution will be in-house dailies made by a dedicated member of the production or editorial team. The third potential solution will be an emerging pool of freelance Red-users offering up (cheap) Redcine onelight services to friends and colleagues (consider this a supplemental income for red owners). I assume that many RED users are eager to grade and process their own dailies at night. Personally I'm not sure how eager I would be to do this after 18 hour shooting days, on a multi-day shoot. For this reason I think local networking will help, with Billy offering midnight rushes to his pal Bob for sympathy, cash or barter.

Having said all of this, I will be pleasantly surprised if Redcine offers all of the bells and whistles that clients have come to expect from midnight dailies. Many DOPs consider dailies their one opportunity to set the look the way they want - before the editor, agency or clients change it all. As such "one-lights" have actually become "best-lights" and midnight colorists put a lot of effort into putting out some sophisticated images, on powerful gear, and on a tight schedule. And if you think the market will be flexible with schedules, I think you are mistaken. They are called Dailies & Rushes for a reason.

FINALS - This is a bit more sticky as secondary color correcting, vignettes, power windows, tracked windows and filter fx will require the muscle of professional color grading tools like Lustre or SCRATCH - generally offered by bigger post houses (some of whom are slow to evolve). Switching over to a pure data paradigm will eventually happen but it may take time, especially considering that many post shops are affiliated with labs and stand to loose major revenue by embracing the great-data-future.

The biggest issue - and the reason I'm posting - is that of time. Say what you will of those old lumbering Ranks and Spirits, but all telecine suites have one major thing going for them - THEY ARE REAL-TIME (at least in SD & HD). Lace up your film and you are ready to go. This is going to be a bitter pill to swallow for the pure-data movement, as post houses may require considerable time before the transfer session starts in order to digitize the data (I assume we are talking about uncompressed 4/4/4 tiffs or DPX files @ 4K or 2K or HD - and that's a lot of data).

Presently all I see are schedules getting shorter and shorter, with offline editors rushing into transfer sessions (15 mins late) with their freshly burned EDL in hand, and their online conform booked later that afternoon. Squeezing another 24 hours out of a post schedule is going to take a major effort in education. It is not enough that Red DOPs and directors learn to evolve - we will have to educate editors, producers, agencies, clients, broadcast buyers, etc. I know many will scoff at this, and so for comparison let's try a silly production analogy:

DIRECTOR: "Yes and we're shooting RED not film, but it will take an extra 1.5 hours out of our shooting day".

PRODUCER: .....dead silence....

I don't mean to sound bleak here, and I don't for a minute doubt the huge benefits that pure-data will offer, but I also fully expect to hear some blond agency producer say these words:

"What do you mean it takes more time? Why do we need 4K anyway? Why is my latte cold? And what was wrong with film in the first place?"

Alas, this agency producer will have long forgotten about all the money that RED saved her in the first place. :(

Food for thought.
 
Question for Lucas:

Can you hook an external hard drive directly up to SCRATCH? Now that would save some major time. When we were running Lustre we were moving data over our company network which was as slow as molasses.

I'm sure you could offer some potent incite into this little debate I'm having with myself.
 
Yeah, the problem is always that you can't just give your post house an HD and expect them to give you a tape dump for a few bucks. Post houses like tapes, and dislike rendering. They charge if their machines are rendering, conforming, copying or doing anything our desktops are used to do. But if we can't get our image to a post house for grading, conforming or even mastering, what good is our product for?

So they will eventually catch up (They already started after the HVX came along, and everybody had DVCPRO HD firewire HDs to master to tape...)
 
Telecine is the proces of going from film to digital media. It's the same in french, the process of going from digital to film, in french, is called Telecinema, what about in english ? I know Swiss Effects for example can do color grading during that process.

Cheers,
Damien
 
Boothba said:
Redcine software run on G5s, or something...
Click to expand...

REDCINE will only run on x86 compatible processors (with certain minimum requirements) on both Windows & Mac OS X. It will not run on PowerPC processors (like the G5). Other software tools will be universal binary though, including the REDCODE codec.
 
Have you guys seen Colorista. It's not Scratch or Lustre but it looks like a very powerful color corrector for the money ($200) and as a plug-in can be used right in FCP. In realtime depending on computer power. Of course many commercials and features will go to pro houses like Riot and the Sydicate but there may soon be a suite of Red owner/DP/finishers who can craft the look of a piece from beguining to end. This is exactly what I do for my commercial still clients. It'll take some getting used to but it will surely be possible to finish 4K Redcode, even with secondaries, powerwindows and the like, right from your own desk.
 
Boothba said:
The biggest issue - and the reason I'm posting - is that of time. Say what you will of those old lumbering Ranks and Spirits, but all telecine suites have one major thing going for them - THEY ARE REAL-TIME (at least in SD & HD). Lace up your film and you are ready to go. This is going to be a bitter pill to swallow for the pure-data movement, as post houses may require considerable time before the transfer session starts in order to digitize the data (I assume we are talking about uncompressed 4/4/4 tiffs or DPX files @ 4K or 2K or HD - and that's a lot of data).
Click to expand...

A valid concern. But the solution might be to avoid transcoding for dailies and just playing back the Redcode RAW files. It's been suggested by Graeme that REDCINE will play back the compressed RAW 4k files in realtime - albeit scaled down and not with the highest quality demosaic. Depending on your hardware config you might be able to pull off a "draft" playback at decent resolution - including primary color correction. Most of us are not going to project dailies at 4k anyway.

Maybe a high-end system could play back REDCODE RAW at half resolution (draft demosaic) in realtime? Add an OpenGL accellerated primary grade.

All speculation thus far, but the concept of a non-destructive realtime viewing and grading of footage is the direction to aim at for dailies and rushes - in my view.

Barend
 
Telecine (IPA pronunciation: [?t?l??s?ni, ?t?l??s?ni]) is the process of transferring motion picture film into electronic form, or the machine used in this process. Telecine enables a motion picture, captured originally on film, to be viewed with standard video equipment, such as televisions, video cassette decks or computers. This allows producers and distributors working in film to release their products on video and allows producers to use video production equipment to complete their film projects.
More
Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine
 
For Daillies, if you just want to see what was shot with the colour settings as shot, just load up the clips into Quicktime or REDCINE and hit "play". Done.

Graeme
 
Redcine

Redcine

True telecine is a film conversion process, but we saw an analogy between the film and RAW processes, which is why we called our app REDCINE...

Telecine enables a motion picture, captured originally on film, to be converted to an appropriate video format for processing with standard video equipment, such as monitors, tape recorders and non-linear editing systems.

REDCINE ditto :

REDCINE enables a motion picture, captured originally in RAW, to be converted to an appropriate video format for processing with standard video equipment, such as monitors, tape recorders and non-linear editing systems.


Beyond that, archiving the RAW source footage to a data tape or other data storage meduim is our equivalant to archiving a film negative. Hence the phrase "Digital Cinema Negative", meaning the camera original RAW data files.
 
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