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Techniques for using gimbals for long durations

Will Turner

Will Turner

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I've found it pretty hard to use the ronin with a full decked out epic for more then a couple of minutes, and after multiple takes I can feel pretty dead. Having to hold a frame for a director or makeup to take a look can be such a pain. I'm wondering if any of you have some advice for operator technique? I'm looking pretty strongly at using the system with a steadicam arm, but for times when it must be hand held does anyone have any advice? Or is it just about hitting the gym more? I'm hoping to find advice other then just buying more equipment, even though I know that's an inevitable.

One thing i've found myself doing while at ease between takes, or while waiting for an actor reset, is to rest the system on my thigh. With one handle on my upper thigh and while I hold the other handle, letting the system hang just to my side.
 
I've been looking into that, might be something down the road worth buying.
 
That or EasyRigs (which I think are a little more diverse, but also more expensive).

On the flip-side, Canon C-series are super light (C100-500 and DSLRs) and some shoot 4k... same with Sony's latest crop... Same with Blackmagic (especially Pocket, if you can swing the smaller sensor/res), and the Production Cam is 4k with Global Shutter which is cheap and great to avoid skew... GH4 shoots 4k too and is super light... I understand this is a RED forum, and you prefer to use RED, but horses for courses applies to gimbals, no?

MoVi and Letus are half the weight of the Ronin, and when combined with any of the above cameras, the entire shootable rig could be ~10lbs., rather than just the brain & lens of a DSMC.

Food for thought.
 
Seems to me to be a step backward if you sacrifice image quality to use a particular camera mount; at least if you don't have to. (Just can't get on board with using a GoPro on a drone for those high angles. I'll make it work with a crane. lol)

My quest has been to create a way in which I can shoot my Scarlet on my Helix. I really don't want to give up either. An arm/vest and the L'Aigle Exoskeleton are both on my list.
 
I think Carey is correct when he said getting more muscle will make your arms heavier and will not help you with carrying gimbals but I think strength training really helps. At least it helped me a lot with the ronin. The more built up guys always get more tired easily:)
 
I absolutely love the look of the Epic+Ronin combo, it's just the long term operation that starts to kill the arms. There is a reason I chose to purchase Red over any other camera, and I'm not really willing to downgrade quality or change the look just for the camera move, especially when it's already working just fine, just a bit heavy.

An EZ rig sounds nice till you need to be eye level with someone who's 6' tall. Then that just sounds like a headach. Along with the y-axis movement that still gets transferred down to the rig.
 
sergio arguello said:
movi and Letus are half the weight???Is this a fact? ive used both and seem pretty equal to me...
Click to expand...

M10: 3.4lbs
Helix: 6.5lbs
Ronin: 9.3lbs

So the movi is actually closer to a 1/3rd the weight of a Ronin (but helix is 2/3rds)... That's 6-lbs off your set up no matter what. Admittedly, a MoVi's weight capacity is less, but that will only make it easier to hold.

By the way, I'm just playing devil's advocate; out of all the gimbals, the Ronin seems the most turn-key to me (especially for it's price range and payload capacity). I just hate having to spend ~$2k more for an Exo or EasyRig. To be honest, I would get an AC who also moonlights as an Op, and then just trade off every few takes. That's what Christopher Probst did on that Taylor Swift video (which was all Ronin/Epic); he and the director just swapped out every few takes.
 
I am no fitness expert but I think there is quite a bit of benefit in building up core body strength to use one of these stabilizers. It is true that your arms aren't likely to be the key facilitators to comfortable use; bulky, heavily muscled arms won't help that much. But, strength through the core and the shoulders will help a lot. And, building up stamina can't hurt either.
 
I have an M10 and an M15, we've used the M10 a lot since launch and really the main thing that helps is building your core up, or having something that's particularly fit / strong run the unit.

Even the M15 is only I think 1.5 lbs heavier than the M10 and it's a big difference on certain types of shots.

It's a similar situation as a Steadicam Op, their stamina and core is essential to doing their job properly.

Or you can go the Exoskeleton route, which looks viable for sure, but not as easy as pick up and go.
 
Will Turner said:
I've found it pretty hard to use the ronin with a full decked out epic for more then a couple of minutes, and after multiple takes I can feel pretty dead. Having to hold a frame for a director or makeup to take a look can be such a pain. I'm wondering if any of you have some advice for operator technique? I'm looking pretty strongly at using the system with a steadicam arm, but for times when it must be hand held does anyone have any advice? Or is it just about hitting the gym more? I'm hoping to find advice other then just buying more equipment, even though I know that's an inevitable.

One thing i've found myself doing while at ease between takes, or while waiting for an actor reset, is to rest the system on my thigh. With one handle on my upper thigh and while I hold the other handle, letting the system hang just to my side.
Click to expand...

Going back to the original question, my advice and what I do for holding frame for director, is mount the Ronin support on a tripod, then adjust the height and angle, and only holding Ronin in my hands for shooting.
 
I've been shooting m10 & helix rigs for over a year and yes, weight does matter, and the Ronin *is* heavy. I know it's cheap but can't understand why so many people flocked to it. Also being able to land Helix without a stand is a great alternative to the "MoVI Squat". I'm more interested in exoskeleton and Steadicam gimbal support than easy rig style but it's all still shaking out isn't it?

Thank you,
 
I am pretty fit, coach Savate and MMA, but i find my Ronin a complete PITA weight wise. I have ended up really planning shots and positions to rest break etc.
It does weigh a lot fully loaded, i would advise some good old strength and conditioning for using this Gimbal :)

Andrew
 
My buddy Ray Dumas invented this: http://www.walterklassen.com/home-page/equipment-2/slingshot/

It lets you operate a loaded gimbal rig all day, and you can shoot from ground level to 8 feet up in the same shot.

Ray-slingshot-high.jpg
 
The Slingshot is great! you can wear it all day and it takes a lot of the weight. We have one for the Ronin. the other alternative we use is the CINEMILLED Tripod mount.
http://cinemilled.com/shop/dji-ronin-quick-plate/

We fly the ronin inverted on a tripod. You can easily pick up and walk with a tripod and as soon as your tired, spread the legs and put it down. Easy and cost effective.
 
Will Turner said:
I really love that, but how do you go through doors? Does it eliminate the movement from the hips that you get from an EZ rig?
Click to expand...

The arms are adjustable, so you can lower them enough to go through doors. We tested a Movi on both an Easy-Rig and a Steadicam arm before Ray came up with this. We found the Easy-Rig introduces a movement axis that the gimbal can't correct, and a Steadicam arm does weird things with the gyros in the gimbal, while this rig stays nice and smooth.
 
I have the helix, for me being able to set the thing down anywhere flat, or rest it on my knee or the ground on the handle in suitcase mode is essential for long use. Just wish the helix would have a 1/4 20 mount on the bottom so I could mount the thing on my tripod.
 
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