Tape worflow

[J.D. Frey]

Have you already shot the footage? Shouldn't you be able to capture the tape live with a deck and timecode when you shoot?

 

[Nick Morrison]

I dont think we are on the same page. Delivering masters to HBO on SR tape and transferring all raw footage to tape with match TC to R3d are two totally different topics. We deliver 99% of our finished content on SR tape.

The OP asked about archiving raw footage to video, my comments were addressing this topic alone.

Yeah, my bad. We weren't on same page.

Yeah laying off all R3D's to tape with matching timecode sounds like a lot of work. AETN lay their RED footage to tape, but I don't think with matching timecode.

And yes...in this case....dumping all the R3D's and DNX proxies to several ESATA drives is probably the easiest thing.

In particular, laying off ALL THE FOOTAGE to SD tapes sounds insane.

Sorry...I will check myself next time before I wreck myself!

- NICK

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

just makes me wonder - how often did you guys witness data-loss/corruption somewhere down the pipeline?
do you keep a safety copy or long-term backup of the data after the product went out to the client? Just curious…

How often is there data loss or corruption? Not often... Pretty much on par with digibeta or HDCAM tapes. Shit happens, sometimes a tape mangles itself or shows a glitch. You move on and hopefully that backup or copy you have is not the only one you have.

I totally understand where Nick is coming from in his rant. I work with these sorts of clients all the time. And with that in mind, I'm siding with Greg on this one. I have one client that continuously insists that they must have BetaSP tapes for everything. It's infuriating. My last beta deck died nearly 5 years ago and I threw it in a f*cking dumpster. I sold my HDCAM deck while it was still worth something. Here and there I get a few requests for laying something off to tape like that, but not enough to justify tracking down a deck. And most everyone in town that had decks or the means to do that sort of thing have folded up shop. Or at least the ones who would give outsiders access and/or not charge an arm and a leg to do it as a service.

People hire me to get them the best results and return on their investments and intended workflows. When they hire me, they get my consultation, even if they're not requesting or expecting it. If I see a way to help them be more productive, I try to help them out. The majority of my clients are corporate, some broadcasters, some government. The bulk of them all are firmly established with file-based workflows these days. But even with that managing 4K acquisition and 1080p or better delivery or mastering is still too much for a lot of them. It's amazing how many client locations I go to and see a G5 PowerMac still being used as the primary edit system and an ancient version of FCP... Or how many 5 year old PCs running SpeedRazor, or 8 year old Avid turn-key boxes. Many are unwilling to upgrade because "it works". In fact they're downright scared of the prospect of upgrading. There are times I get brought into a situation like that to help out because that trusty old Avid system just died and they don't know what to do.

I've seen LTO's with data corruption, I've seen many dead disk drives (including RAIDs)…
Ok - all of that can also happen to video tapes but having an additional copy on tape is never a bad idea.
I still don't trust digital data without total redundancy (means - stored on different locations [not only different spots inside one building]).

I've seen all the dead discs and tapes and whatnot too. I own an IT company that manages a data center and we're always replacing hard drives, complete RAIDs at times, etc.. Not always because they go bad, but it's a continuous process of monitoring and upkeep. Offline archives to LTO are very reliable, I would say in the 99% realm -- same as with any other robust tape form like HDCAM. Very similar tape technology there. Always best to have multiple backups and store in multiple locations.

Having a copy on tape is like having a actual printed/developed photograph…
Of course it's not full res/RAW anymore, the look is baked in and the quality alters over time (the more you use/show it).
But if you somehow loose (access to) your digital data you'll be very happy to have the "bad" photograph at least.

The quality only alters over time on analog formats. With digital formats, the tapes degrade the same way in the physical sense, but what happens to the contents is it works until it doesn't, degradation reaches a point where corruption sets in. Anyone who is still using analog tape formats for newly archived or delivered content needs to be dragged with extreme haste into the future... 22 years into the future. Digibeta, HDCAM, DV, DVCPRO[HD], etc.. are all digital formats. HDCAM, DVCPROHD, and all the current flavors of XDCAM, AVC-Intra, P2 AVC, etc.. all have file-based workflows and constructs, you can be tapeless with HDCAM. Careful mentioning that to some of the big HDCAM companies like AETN, it will blow their mind.

The biggest hold-outs are large companies. AETN is a good example. They are clinging to how they want to do it as long as they can. Unfortunately reality is already kicking their ass, I've talked to a number of people who work there or or provide services to them. Some on these forums, some elsewhere. They are swamped, they can't keep up with the loads of footage coming in... In a nutshell, they're screwed. But they're also unwilling to change and take a serious look at other workflows. Of course, that will happen at some point, they will be forced to. And it won't be pretty. I'm not so sure they'll survive the inevitable.

...As I've asked some of the other AETN guys (and those who work for other cable entities in similar situations), how do they expect to continue in the face of mass-transition to IP distribution and delivery? How do they expect to continue with the onslaught of full-HD 3D, 4K, etc..? What are they going to do when channelization becomes a thing of the past? The list of what's and how's goes on and on and I really don't see how a lot of these large entities will persist while clinging to old technologies and workflows.