Suggestion for "Universal Birger Mount" - comments please

[Hans-Georg Daun]

It seems that the currently proposed solution to the issue of the Birger mount voiding the camera warranty, i.e. sending the camera to Birger for the installation of the mount, is not practical for those who wish to switch between the Birger mount and other mounts (PL, Nikon).

Since Birger at some point suggested the possibility of a "universal mount", i.e. a base mount that could be fitted with various adapters for different mount systems, I would like to test the waters here and ask the following question:

- would you be interested in a "Universal Birger Mount", assuming there'd be a price increase from the original Birger mount and that you'd have to send the camera to Birger for the installation of the mount ?

Please note that this is just an attempt by me to suggest a possible solution for the Birger mount situation. I cannot say what Birger are able and/or willing to do. But maybe it would help Erik to see if people are willing to accept a price increase / delivery delay in order to get a more flexible mount system.

 

[Joe D'Arcy]

A good idea if it were possible. However, creating and finalising the non universal 'Red Burgers' is taking considerable time. Creating a universal mount would probably add another 6 months to the delivery date.

 

[Harmonica]

A good idea if it were possible. However, creating and finalising the non universal 'Red Burgers' is taking considerable time. Creating a universal mount would probably add another 6 months to the delivery date.

Bodhi is right, and I have a feeling it would add MORE than 6 months. Red just needs to suck it up and cover the Birger mount under their warranty so that we can switch back and forth between the Birger and the PL. As far as I can tell, that's the only viable option.

They say this could cost them a lot of money, but haven't they made hundreds of thousands of dollars thanks to Birger reservation holders?

 

[M Hsu]

I would love what you're talking about. However considering I need to start shooting now, I think I need the only other shipping option, the good old nikon mount.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

They say this could cost them a lot of money, but haven't they made hundreds of thousands of dollars thanks to Birger reservation holders?

Erik said it is about 200 Birger EF orders.

Just count:

US$17.500 (RED Body) X 200 (Birger EF mount orders) = US$350.000.

 

[David Wilson]

Hmmmmmm...

US$17.500 (RED Body) X 200 (Birger EF mount orders) = US$3,500,000.

 

[Harmonica]

Erik said it is about 200 Birger EF orders.

Just count:

US$17.500 (RED Body) X 200 (Birger EF mount orders) = US$350.000.

I hadn't seen that 200 reservations figure, but you left out a zero. $17,500.00 x 200 = $3,500,000.00.

So I stand corrected. If there are indeed 200 reservations (probably more would be my guess), then Red has made millions off of Birger reservation holders.

You could argue that many of those reservation holders would have bought the Red anyway, but at the same time we're being very conservative by using $17,500.00 in the equation. Most likely, all these reservation holders have invested more like $23,000.00 or a lot more.

That would make the total at least $4,600,000.00. But I digress.

By the way, Sanjin. Where did you see that 200 figure?

 

[Joe Vinson]

By the way, Sanjin. Where did you see that 200 figure?

It was in Erik's email:

I am committed to delivering what we have promised to the more than 200 customers that have placed reservations with us.

 

[Harmonica]

It was in Erik's email:

Thanks. I haven't been able to bring myself to read his e-mail yet.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Sorry about the figure mistake.

Typo mistake because I didn't dial one more 0 at the keyboard.

Thanks for the correction.

And about 200 Birger EF mount reservations I read at Tico's copy and paste email from Erik at the post 1683

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=246285&postcount=1683

 

[Michael Hastings]

Doesn't change anything

Doesn't change anything

The issue is where RED has drawn the line for allowable user access as not allowing removal of the adjustable portion of the pl mount. This means nothing but thin "dumb" mounts like the nikon mount (which is I think just 6mm thick) have enough room. It is arbitrary in that nothing new is exposed (the i-data cable is there even with the nikon mount) so no real increased danger. And I think once RED has had a little time to rest up from their other endeavours (a lot of cool sh*t has been happening with build 16 and 2.40 4.5K) they will reconsider that.

 

[Erik Widding]

A good idea if it were possible. However, creating and finalising the non universal 'Red Burgers' is taking considerable time. Creating a universal mount would probably add another 6 months to the delivery date.

Our RED camera adapter serves as a secondary front surface of the camera. It is basically an interchangeable mount. Remove four screws, to detach the lens mount from the camera adapter. Adjust collimation number to the one you wrote down. Place other mount and same four screws.

It is possible to switch between our mounts Canon EF (shipping), and FourThirds/Nikon (announced) without exposing the I-cable or removing the adapter from the camera.

Unfortunately, when we engineered the solution, we were thinking of SLR lenses, and making it as small as possible. So a PL mount for this system is just not that feasible. The quantity and size of screws, as well as overall diameter of the mounts, just won't support it. It was never a consideration in our existing markets to use PL lenses, as they have no motors in them.

 

[Russ Campbell]

Would love to see a Birger multi-mount solution, but cannot wait another month, never mind another 6 months. I am on the verge of canceling my order, depending on the feedback over the next day or 2. Would love to use the Birger mount as it is a much simpler solution for going between PL and SLR glass without the constant backfocus adjustments needed for the Nikon mount, but am not prepared to void my warranty no matter how tempting.

 

[Mark Crabtree]

If shorting the I-cable results in severe damage to the camera's electrical system then a lens with a short would also short the I - cable and would most likely cause the same severe damage. So the question is: is this something Red should fix? Red could modify the cable and or add a circuit to protect the camera from damage in the event of a short. I would be willing to pay for this to safeguard my camera and allow for less risky mount swaps.

 

[M Hsu]

Mark, no one has yet confirmed that shorting the i-cable is the actual problem. Considering that you run that same risk when adding a nikon mount, I'm not sure what is going on here. Erik and Aqua can you guys confirm what actually happened that required your cameras to go back to RED? Can we confirm that the 8 other mounts out there are running ok?

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Re-born on the Fourth of July

Re-born on the Fourth of July

Our RED camera adapter serves as a secondary front surface of the camera. It is basically an interchangeable mount. Remove four screws, to detach the lens mount from the camera adapter. Adjust collimation number to the one you wrote down. Place other mount and same four screws.

It is possible to switch between our mounts Canon EF (shipping), and FourThirds/Nikon (announced) without exposing the I-cable or removing the adapter from the camera.

Unfortunately, when we engineered the solution, we were thinking of SLR lenses, and making it as small as possible. So a PL mount for this system is just not that feasible. The quantity and size of screws, as well as overall diameter of the mounts, just won't support it. It was never a consideration in our existing markets to use PL lenses, as they have no motors in them.

The issue is where RED has drawn the line for allowable user access as not allowing removal of the adjustable portion of the pl mount. This means nothing but thin "dumb" mounts like the nikon mount (which is I think just 6mm thick) have enough room. It is arbitrary in that nothing new is exposed (the i-data cable is there even with the nikon mount) so no real increased danger. And I think once RED has had a little time to rest up from their other endeavours (a lot of cool sh*t has been happening with build 16 and 2.40 4.5K) they will reconsider that.

Maybe Jim should take/swap Birger EF mount on RED tomorrow (Friday, July 4, 2008)

and try out himself to shoot with his huge and beloved Canon EF lens collection.

I'm sure he would like it and appreciate that very much.

Then Birger EF mount would be Re-born on the Fourth of July.

 

[M Hsu]

Erik you said:

It is possible to switch between our mounts Canon EF (shipping),

So does that mean you actually are shipping? I've asked Amy to go ahead and send my mount, I'll take my chances. Are you in manufacturing yet or still in redesign and testing? Sorry to bother you here, but I'm sure other people would like to know so they can make decisions.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

I feel for the folks overseas, there's no joy in repeatedly sending your camera through customs, that's for sure.

This is a tough decision. I suppose it would help to make the call if we could know how much the installation will cost. It appears that Birger is located in Boston, yes?

I kinda wish RED would offer this installation service themselves. Then we could have an East Coast/West Coast choice, at least.

I still can't decide if this is a deal-killer or not...but it is definitely giving me pause and tempting me into canceling the order until the skies are a little bit clearer and then returning to this option if, indeed, a critical mass of users are delighted....

 

[Michael Hastings]

Mark, no one has yet confirmed that shorting the i-cable is the actual problem. Considering that you run that same risk when adding a nikon mount, I'm not sure what is going on here. Erik and Aqua can you guys confirm what actually happened that required your cameras to go back to RED?

Sorry to leave you in that cloud of confusion, but I would rather not speculate on that publicly and prefer that it come from RED.

But I am confident that the latest version of the Birger mount can be installed safely by any professional-level camera person.

 

[M Hsu]

Sorry to leave you in that cloud of confusion, but I would rather not speculate on that publicly and prefer that it come from RED.

But I am confident that the latest version of the Birger mount can be installed safely by any professional-level camera person.

Jarred, Stuart...

Do you guys want to say anything about what went wrong with the cameras? Please give us some info here so those of us considering voiding our warranties know what we're up against.