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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Stopping pirates?

Vince Doran said:
Getting sick of this crap, is there any medium available for distribution that will stop them or make it hard for pirates to copy?
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The problem with video and photography is that if you can see it, you can copy it one way or another. I mean, look at AACS - it's a well designed system designed by cryptography experts, but let down because there's no way to decode it without having the encryption key somewhere in the player software's memory. As soon as you find the key, you can decode Blu-Ray and HD-DVD disks.

The fundamental problem is that cryptography is designed to get something from party A to party B, without a third party being able to read it. DRM and copy protection tries to get something from the studio to the consumer, and letting them see it whilst trying to hide the data from them. This is effectively impossible unless the user doesn't have access to the key (but then they wouldn't be able to watch the content!)

Another thing to consider is that apart from being fundamentally flawed, DRM and copy protection is getting less and less transparent, and annoying to consumers who actually buy the content. For example, there's no way to watch a Blu-Ray disk that I have bought over a VGA connection, because of HDCP copy protection (which tries to stop people copying the movie by recording the image coming out of a display connection like HDMI, VGA or DVI, by only letting it be shown on authorised displays*). But if I hadn't bought the thing, and had just downloaded a HD rip, I'd be able to! The only way to cut down on piracy is to offer a better product, and the movie industry is currently failing at this. The recording industry is getting better though - now I am able to buy DRM free music from iTunes, I'm far more likely to buy music from them.

* Incidentally, HDCP has been rendered useless now there are devices to strip the protection from the stream.
 
You know Mutant Chronicles had in excess of 4 million downloads before it was ever released. I still don't have a DVD copy from the producers

Street Fighter The Legend of Chun Li was available as a cam the day it went into theatres and as a DVD the day it was released on DVD, or was it the day before?

Dark Country was available for download the day it was in the shops on DVD.

Wallander series one is all available on the net but for the first time I have got a film/films from the producers before it is available on the net! series 2 is not available to steal, yet.

I think that the only way things like this are going to work in future is HD PPV on satellite with serious encryption, then a DVD release and then a TV showing. If you are going to have a theatrical release then have it after the PPV
 
Imran Farouk said:
Well...you could lawyer up...but what are the legal fees going to cost you and are you sure you can 100% prove it?

If so...then yeah you could do that....
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Lawyers will cost you more than the loss of income from the piracy. Remember, "Criminal Lawyer" is a redundancy! There are more effective ways...:emote_whack::violent5::boxing_smiley::gun::nads::emote_hanged:
 
DRM sucks!

I buy everything legit, and have to struggle with "forced subtitles", endless intro menu movies, and forced commercials/trailers that never end.
I even had to get a second blu-ray player to get around those annoying region-codes.

A while back I needed to see a movie (as part of preparation for a meeting) I had little time, no options of buying the film were available to me (you can´t buy movies on itunes in Norway), but the film was available through piratebay for immediate download.

I don´t approve of piracy one bit, I have litteraly tons of DVDs and blu rays (original and ligit). But I hate DRM and I hate that I have to sit and watch the warnings and anti-piracy "commercials", hey! - I bought the thing, dont show it to me!

The film studios are not helping themselves by putting on DRM, restrictions, region codes and all sorts of enforced limitations and annoying warnings etc. And by not making the films available through internet purchase (for all), they help the pirates even more.

Seems like Vince has an easy case, and I support him 100%.
 
Pawel Achtel said:
There are more effective ways...:emote_whack::violent5::boxing_smiley::gun::nads::emote_hanged:
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Yes, I have not ruled out an eye for an eye, so to speak, I can and possibly will take them out of the sky....thanks everyone.
 
Vince Doran said:
Yes, I have not ruled out an eye for an eye, so to speak, I can and possibly/will take them out of the sky....thanks everyone.
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Just be careful that you act within the law. For example, you can use REASONABLE force and steps to stop a crime. It all depends how far you can stretch it and be still within the law. :patriot:
 
Movie piracy is so great because distributors refuse to listen to the demand.

People LIKE to download movies at home, well and if they do it for free they won't pay 20 bucks now.

Offer a HD .MKV file, with subtitles with it, commentary track, sell it for dead cheap and perhaps they won't lose that much money.

If distributors were more customer-oriented like RED piracy would never be so big.

Stephen Gentle said:
The fundamental problem is that cryptography is designed to get something from party A to party B, without a third party being able to read it. DRM and copy protection tries to get something from the studio to the consumer, and letting them see it whilst trying to hide the data from them. This is effectively impossible unless the user doesn't have access to the key (but then they wouldn't be able to watch the content!)
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Remember what happened when Amazon ditched DRM for MP3s?

:)
 
Internet piracy is technologically invincible.

The only way out is to accept free (ad-supported) media as the norm for home distribution.

All other efforts will inevitably lead to failure and eventually - collapse.
 
I've said this many times: preventing piracy is an impossibility. Sadly, it really doesn't matter what new anti-piracy technology comes out tomorrow, at some point, the video/audio stream needs to "come out" for the audience to see/hear, and anyone can just tap into that. Simple example: you could plant yourself in front of a movie screen or flat panel display with a camera and record the material. Sure the quality won't be great, but many don't care.

It sucks (a lot) for the guy trying to make a living off of his material. But it is a reality that needs to be coped with.
 
Pietro Impagliazzo said:
Movie piracy is so great because distributors refuse to listen to the demand.

People LIKE to download movies at home, well and if they do it for free they won't pay 20 bucks now.

Offer a HD .MKV file, with subtitles with it, commentary track, sell it for dead cheap and perhaps they won't lose that much money.

:)
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I agree totally with you.

If I was SPE/Fox/etc I'd much rather have $2 directly from 50 million people than $5 from 10 million people.

Of course those aren't the numbers but the principle is there, make it cheap enough and easily available enough and people will pay for it.

Strangely enough a huge amount of people will still go and see it in the cinemas and wait for it on TV.

I'm absolutely certain that DVD/DR and rental can be converted in to downloads and will generate MORE money for the studios and kill the pirates.

Of course the studios awareness of "new media" varies enormously.
 
Piracy can be a double edged sword. A couple of months ago I purchased 5 dvds from what I thought was a reputable store. They were pirated copies of 5 films I shot. It looked to me like they were shot off a crt monitor from a VHS playback. Needless to say it looked worse than horrible which concerns me far more than being ripped off. I would love to get into one of those ultimate fighting rings with a couple of those pirates.
 
It's not a bad thought though, especially if you have something that is cheap enough to download and offers more value for money then $20. My one thing though that annoys me more is when people rip videos off and don't give props to its rightful owners, mostly happens on YouTube. Its filled with too much junk. Pirating could stop though with various methods, encoding a video so it isn't possible to rip off the server and detections of any screen recording device will shut down the browser? Argo. You build your documentary's and sell them off your page just as Pietro suggested.

On a side note: Just wondering what do people use to do .mkv and .divx files, is there an encoder for mac that does it? Cause I've been looking for one for ages. Not to become a pirate but it helps send trailers back and forth between my editor and myself when overseas. small file sizes :smile:
 
Imran Farouk said:
On a side note: Just wondering what do people use to do .mkv and .divx files, is there an encoder for mac that does it? Cause I've been looking for one for ages. Not to become a pirate but it helps send trailers back and forth between my editor and myself when overseas. small file sizes :smile:
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www.divx.com Same software for both platforms more or less.
 
iTunes has shown that it is possible to charge for music that is also available pirated. So it should be possible to transfer this business plan to moving images, but a number of factors are important:

a) Easy to download (and should start playing before the whole donwload is finished, i.e. semi-on-demand)
b) Faster to download than a pirated version
c) Consistent quality - HD should be minimum
d) Very affordable (.99 for a song, so maybe 9.99 for new releases, going down to 4.99 or 3.99 for a movie?)
e) Buy once, own forever
f) Should be possible to have it accross all media players within a household
g) Some form of added value, i.e. the "Genius" in iTunes

I think this could lead to very interesting times for small production companies, who would no longer be dependent on the distributor to get their films out.

Imran, try VLC @ http://www.videolan.org
 
I would strongly disagree with E) Buy Once, Own Forever.

I am a Zune customer and I absolutely love it. I pay a monthly fee ($15) and can download or stream any and all music that I want. Plus I get to keep 10 songs forever ($10 value).

Zune converted me from a $25 a year music customer into a $130 a year music customer overnight. I would like to see that extended to a Netflix style system. Unlimited OnDemand TV and Movies streaming plus 1 movie per month to keep.

I don't really care to own most content I consume. I usually only want to watch it once.

---

The big problem with Netflix on Demand is that it can be slow. Last night I wanted to watch something on Netflix but it had to keep buffering. A downloaded Divx would have been much higher quality and more consistent. I wish Netflix would offer time limited DIVXs (I'm pretty sure DIVX includes the capabilities for expirations). I mean it's not like there isn't an HD off-air edited copy on a torrent site within an hour. If people want to copy it they'll copy it.
 
I'm of the "buy once, use forever" camp. There are so many variables that can play into the subscription based model. What if I move to a country where this system isn't in place? Or can no longer afford the service?

Still, I recognise that a large group of people may prefer the subscription model. But are the two mutually exclusive?

I wonder when these digital growing pains will stop...
 
It sounds like two issues (although this is probably addressed later in the thread).

If there is a pirated copy, made by other people that's one thing.

Playing your material for the public is another thing. Public performances are another part of US copyright law, but I'm not sure where you are. You could sent them a cease and desist and insist they license the material for their travel agency.

The piracy is a different matter. And not all that important in the big scheme. Think of it as free exposure, getting your name out to more people who wouldn't have bought it anyway.
 
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