STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT SCARLET SPECS!

[Robert Jackson]

You see, this is a false accusation. Calling people parrots for expressing their opinion is arrogant. When I said one should move forward rather than backward I meant I wanted a camera that came as close to being, in function and look, to a super 35mm film camera as possible-but at a price I could afford. I want a camera that allows me to use sharp prime lenses at an exact focal length. I want the best resolution I can get. And I don't want to pay $60,000 if I can help. Saying people are parrots is a sad reflection alright. Egocent6ic and flat out disingenuous. I don't want to argue, but being called a mimic and ignorant is BS.

First off, you didn't say your goal was to get as close to Super-35 as possible. You said you wanted to move forward. And "forward" implies that anything other than what Red is currently doing is a move "backward," which isn't the case, IMO. And you could have used "sharp prime lenses at an exact focal length" if Red had released its Mini Primes, which I looked at as the Bolex Switars of a new era. I seem to remember someone here even rendering a "Digital Bolex" mockup with a turret full of mini primes. These things would have been a move "forward" for indie filmmakers. Offering a hobbled Epic that can only shoot at 6 fps at its native resolution isn't a step "forward" for anyone, IMO. It's just something to offer up inexpensively to people who can't afford an Epic. The Scarlet, however...that was a completely different animal that some people would choose specifically for its unique abilities...and at the end of the day something new that nobody else in the market is offering is about as "forward" as it gets.

 

[Cenydd Ros]

Well, to be clear, that's what I want - a camera that emulates super 35mm that is affordable. Will have to wait and see what Scarlet looks like on the big screen and hear reliability feedback before I buy, though. The jury is still out with me on digital cameras. I shoot stills on a digital Canon and am not altogether satisfied in that regard. Still waiting to be impressed.

 

[Zeb B]

Well, part of it is that Red pulled a bait and switch on their Scarlet customers and I have a problem with giving my business to a company that thinks that little of me.

If you won't do business with RED then WtheF are you here? To save the innocents from the Evil RED Overlord? If you have no interest in actually committing to RED then you are of no use to this forum since all your opinions will be of a hollow theoretical devil's advocate nature which provide no real problem/solution information to Users like myself. It is called REDUser for a reason - not "Creepy Guy With Camera and Opinion on Everything Seeking Mutual Verbal Masturbation Forum". You're wasting server space and bandwidth which is paid for by REDUsers.

 

[Felix K.]

Josh, when you have spent more than a month posting here, then you can talk about "committing". Otherwise it's just pathetic.

 

[Cenydd Ros]

To be fair, it sounds to me like he was interested in a RED camera that would be something that suited his needs, and they didn't deliver. Sound complaint. What they did deliver, however, is more what I am looking for, so I am still hopeful.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Call him whatever you like but he knows very well what he's doing. My respect is higher than ever. Yes, we can trust in his vision.

My bet is that with Jim or Jarred, RED will always prevail. I was never 'the' fanboy, just a loyal customer. Even if today I could let to be the typical dude for some special reason

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...and-tell-me-it-s-raining.&p=859062#post859062

Exactly. Majority is measured in numbers. As much as a successful product. Losers have no place in RED program, should not have in RED clientele schedule either.

You clearly don't comprehend what I said - what are you suggesting I called him?? And no, you're not more of a RED appreciated than I am. If you read back through my posts for the last two years, you'll see that no one respects and supports Jim and Red more than I do. There is a lot of disappointment around the Fixed Scarlet and it's understandable. We'll get over it - you should, too.

And, just to be clear, the majority is not always right.

You have ranted enough about this issue, don't you think - especially for someone who seems to have no horse in this particular race.

 

[Robert Jackson]

Well, to be clear, that's what I want - a camera that emulates super 35mm that is affordable. Will have to wait and see what Scarlet looks like on the big screen and hear reliability feedback before I buy, though. The jury is still out with me on digital cameras. I shoot stills on a digital Canon and am not altogether satisfied in that regard. Still waiting to be impressed.

Yeah, I had a Canon 5D and never really liked the way it handled highlights. Then I got a Nikon D700 and it was the first digital stills camera that really handled latitude in a way I liked, but it still has oddities in the way it renders color and even at low ISOs it will do strange things with gradients in the sky sometimes. "Chunky" transitions from one shade of blue to another when using a polarizer and stuff like that.

I mean, film had its oddities, too, but they had a nature that wasn't offensive...or maybe I'm just really used to film. My folks ran a little local lab when I was a kid and I've kinda spent my whole life obsessed with it. When I got my first TV gig in the mid-80's it was at a place that had gone "totally electronic" and did everything on 1" reel-to-reel tape or 3/4" U-Matic and the only way I was able to shoot 16mm was to find ad clients who specifically wanted it.

Yeah, shooting RAW allows a lot more control, but it's still a tough sell sometimes, although the HDRx footage looks really good sometimes. It's kind of amazing how much you can kick it around when you're debayering it without bringing anything too ugly out of it.

 

[Zeb B]

Josh, when you have spent more than a month posting here, then you can talk about "committing". Otherwise it's just pathetic.

Felix, I understand from your posts your disappointment in RED not providing you what you personally wanted. That said, they have provided me with the products I need for my work. For that I have committed the backside of $100K toward RED products. If that is not the bottom-line definition of REDUser Commitment then tell me what is. Posting drivel and rich guy whines about how RED screwed people out of their ability to create art by upgrading Scarlet and charging more than expected? Please.

 

[Emanuel A.]

You clearly don't comprehend what I said - what are you suggesting I called him?? And no, you're not more of a RED appreciated than I am. If you read back through my posts for the last two years, you'll see that no one respects and supports Jim and Red more than I do. There is a lot of disappointment around the Fixed Scarlet and it's understandable. We'll get over it - you should, too.

And, just to be clear, the majority is not always right.

You have ranted enough about this issue, don't you think - especially for someone who seems to have no horse in this particular race.

You misunderstood my post.

I know your posts, but it looks like you don't know my style of writing at times. Yes, I also write in a figurative way occasionally. It doesn't mean I had said you had had bad mouth related to someone I'm used to see to be praised in all your posts I had the pleasure to read.

I just wanted then to make the point that it is not important what we (me, you, him) think on the matter. Precisely the contrary what you hinted with your last statement.

I don't exactly have or should have a horse in the race even if I got your figurative way to express your idea. Our common horse should always be what works out better. We don't want to be any sorta of losers, isn't it? After all, a lot depends on that. Even families -- not necessarily only ours, most part of the time.

My horse is the strategy I believe will succeed. It looks like ours don't coincide, a pity. Maybe next time But I won't say you have, should have or should not have your horse in the race. If you have (Robert, do you have it?) good luck with it!

Reasons of our own (personal ones) never count when we are speaking of numbers. Numbers which shall have an influence on others lives. Families to feed up. I am certain but I'd rather say I bet, Jim has also his thinking in his employees' families when he makes his decisions. Not exactly if this or that idea will serve the cool teenager who praises us online 'cause has a dream to fulfill (please don't infer I called you teenager by any chance even 'cause I remember your previous avatar earlier than your favorite dog IIRC). Even 'cause they (the numbers) don't give a damn for them!

Does it give me any kind of comfort to see Jim and Jarred to share the same opinion of mine? (I'm speaking about market strategy)
Yes. As same as it should happen to them, I just can hope. I do

 

[Felix K.]

Felix, I understand from your posts your disappointment in RED not providing you what you personally wanted. That said, they have provided me with the products I need for my work. For that I have committed the backside of $100K toward RED products. If that is not the bottom-line definition of REDUser Commitment then tell me what is. Posting drivel and rich guy whines about how RED screwed people out of their ability to create art by upgrading Scarlet and charging more than expected? Please.

If you had spent more time on the forum you'd know that the actually downscaled Epic-S and called it Scarlet-X.
If you talk about the Fixed Scarlet, then you'd know that they didn't change it. They decided not to make it at all. There were always 3 Scarlets planned. Fixed and Interchangeable Scarlet with the 2/3" sensor and Scarlet S35. The last one exists now with less fps as Scarlet-X which is great for all that wanted that camera. It is also great for the industry in general as it is better than the competition and cheaper.
But the 2/3" Scarlets don't get made after 3 years of teasing us with them. So it's not just me "personally wanting" something. I just believed in Jim that he would talk for three years about a camera system incl showing prototypes and boasting how great the footage from the prototypes is just to then hype an event to announce they don't get made. If you don't get it, then don't.

 

[Zeb B]

If you had spent more time on the forum you'd know that the actually downscaled Epic-S and called it Scarlet-X.
If you talk about the Fixed Scarlet, then you'd know that they didn't change it. They decided not to make it at all. There were always 3 Scarlets planned. Fixed and Interchangeable Scarlet with the 2/3" sensor and Scarlet S35. The last one exists now with less fps as Scarlet-X which is great for all that wanted that camera. It is also great for the industry in general as it is better than the competition and cheaper.
But the 2/3" Scarlets don't get made after 3 years of teasing us with them. So it's not just me "personally wanting" something. I just believed in Jim that he would talk for three years about a camera system incl showing prototypes and boasting how great the footage from the prototypes is just to then hype an event to announce they don't get made. If you don't get it, then don't.

I agree with you on the ridiculous amount of RED Announcements, Hype and . . . wait for it . . . RED Herring over the years. I have to believe Jim has learned the Apple approach to product release is probably best: Product Development Secrecy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Announce/SHIP

Being the underdog sometimes you might believe over-communicating is the best thing to do. For you, me and many others it seems - not so much. RED is a young company still learning from their mistakes. I hope young supporters, like yourself, have a place in their model since inclusion at the entry level is key to most businesses.

 

[Robert Jackson]

Remember the 120 fps test footage a while back? Man, I musta watched this a dozen times...

http://red.cachefly.net/Scarlet-120FPS.zip

 

[Emanuel A.]

Robert, you have definitely a (private horse in this personal race

 

[Robert Jackson]

Robert, you have definitely a (private horse in this personal race

They peddled a very appealing vision. Basically a digital Arri 16SR2 HS that could shoot RAW and a set of relatively fast primes to go with it. Like many, I been a-waitin' on my 16mm digital high-speed Swiss Army Knife.

You know, and then Andrew Dice Clay walked up and said, "Hey kid...you like apples? How'd you like THEM apples!?!?! OHHHH!"

Somethin' like that. Essentially.

 

[Djordje Stajic]

I would buy a Fixed Scarlet even with a flaw on the lens...I cant afford Scarlet X, I wish I could, but I cant..not all have wages like in US..in my country we earn 250 euro (everage wage)

I Love Red though...

 

[Dean Harrington]

Scarlet X ...

Scarlet X ...

I'm personally very please that Red has produced the Scarlet X. I have an EX3/NanoFlash combination for ENG and corporate work that suites me very well. I don't really need the shallow depth of field from that camera. I do hope Red can get the fps up a bit more on the 2K out-put on this camera ... at some point ... that would be ideal. I will definitely let the water settle a bit before jumping on board but it looks like Scarlet X may be in my pocket sometime early 2012. Red has said it will be up to full stock sometime in February and that suites me just fine.

 

[Robert Jackson]

If you had spent more time on the forum you'd know that the actually downscaled Epic-S and called it Scarlet-X.
If you talk about the Fixed Scarlet, then you'd know that they didn't change it. They decided not to make it at all. There were always 3 Scarlets planned. Fixed and Interchangeable Scarlet with the 2/3" sensor and Scarlet S35. The last one exists now with less fps as Scarlet-X which is great for all that wanted that camera. It is also great for the industry in general as it is better than the competition and cheaper.
But the 2/3" Scarlets don't get made after 3 years of teasing us with them. So it's not just me "personally wanting" something. I just believed in Jim that he would talk for three years about a camera system incl showing prototypes and boasting how great the footage from the prototypes is just to then hype an event to announce they don't get made. If you don't get it, then don't.

There was a 4th Scarlet, too. Remember they had a FF35 on the list scheduled to be released "Winter 2009" that had a 6K sensor and shot at 1-30 fps for $12,000. But yeah, Scarlet S35 was supposed to be 5K at 1-30 fps at $7000. And then the 2/3" was listed as 1-120 fps at 3K for $2500. No price listed on the fixed model. So yeah, Scarlet S35 didn't meet their targets and the 2/3" models vanished completely from their plans. The pricing always seemed pretty unrealistic. By the time the 2009 release date had come and gone I pretty much expected to pay $7000+ for the 2/3" interchangeable lens model. BTW, I suspect the FF35 model will eventually happen.

And I'm sure it sucks for them that the 2/3" program is gone, too. They wouldn't have spent as much time working on it as they did if they hadn't intended to release it. I'm just sad that the concept never got a proper funeral for the people who'd been following it for three years. All we got was an announcement that everything had changed and it was all better than ever! And then they presented this limping, hobbled monstrosity that shoots 12 fps at its full resolution.

Now if I were to buy a Red the only thing really worth looking at is an Epic-X. When is Stage 4 allegedly going to happen, again?

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Nobody is releasing a 2/3" camera now. The market is dead. The 5D changed the demand on the low end even. F3, FS100, GH1, 5D, 7D, 1D, Nikon, Alexa, F65... the 2/3" market is dead. Canon even is moving to 4K sensors if not delivery. From the DVX price point to the high end Cine-Alta price point it's over.

RED almost certainly would have released a 2/3" camera if they could have worked out the fixed's lens. It's not bait and switch to try and make a 2/3" camera spend millions on R&D and then fail. The 2/3" was always a dead-end product line anyway. No upgrade path to Dragon. 1080p target resolution so you would have been the black sheep of the RED family, especially when their marketing is dismissing everything <4k. And it would have been going head to head with products like the GH1. The 8x lens development was the only thing keeping Scarlet 2/3" alive. And when that was abandoned then there was really no point anymore.

 

[Zeb B]

There was a 4th Scarlet, too. Remember they had a FF35 on the list scheduled to be released "Winter 2009" that had a 6K sensor and shot at 1-30 fps for $12,000. But yeah, Scarlet S35 was supposed to be 5K at 1-30 fps at $7000. And then the 2/3" was listed as 1-120 fps at 3K for $2500. No price listed on the fixed model. So yeah, Scarlet S35 didn't meet their targets and the 2/3" models vanished completely from their plans. The pricing always seemed pretty unrealistic. By the time the 2009 release date had come and gone I pretty much expected to pay $7000+ for the 2/3" interchangeable lens model. BTW, I suspect the FF35 model will eventually happen.

And I'm sure it sucks for them that the 2/3" program is gone, too. They wouldn't have spent as much time working on it as they did if they hadn't intended to release it. I'm just sad that the concept never got a proper funeral for the people who'd been following it for three years. All we got was an announcement that everything had changed and it was all better than ever! And then they presented this limping, hobbled monstrosity that shoots 12 fps at its full resolution.

Now if I were to buy a Red the only thing really worth looking at is an Epic-X. When is Stage 4 allegedly going to happen, again?

Robert, you are a lame troll - the RED community should stop feeding you by their responding to your negative, unfounded drivel. Go darken some other forum with your bullshit.

 

[Philipe Ratton]

99% of the complaints about scarlet in reduser were about the sensor size.
Almost everyone wanted a camera with a bigger sensor. Just search the responses on the recon threads and see for yourselfs.
And now a lot of ppl is giving red and Jim a lot of shit on sensor size again.
You know what, if you are pissed, take your business somewhere else, it's a capitalist world, lots of options, pick one and be happy !
RED makes digital cinema cameras, for everything else there are tons of options out there.