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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Still changing...

less from a-minima

less from a-minima

I haven't seen smart ergonomic design from RED yet. The RED one kind of sucks and is a testament to third party ingenuity. Why not return to 100+ years of sensible camera design evolution. There is a reason a good shoulder mounted camera has been designed the way it has. If you are thinking compact and S35, lets talk about the Arri 235. In the scheme of things, RED needs to address this and the cost is negligible. One is supposed to learn from their mistakes I thought.
 
Fence sitter said:
I haven't seen smart ergonomic design from RED yet. The RED one kind of sucks and is a testament to third party ingenuity. Why not return to 100+ years of sensible camera design evolution. There is a reason a good shoulder mounted camera has been designed the way it has. If you are thinking compact and S35, lets talk about the Arri 235. In the scheme of things, RED needs to address this and the cost is negligible. One is supposed to learn from their mistakes I thought.
Click to expand...

Are you willing to entertain the idea that perhaps they looked at Arri's design and decided not to go that way?

Are you willing to entertain the idea that by them adopting a "neutral" design they can allow for 3rd party ingenuity, thereby lettinig each user create the "arri" design of their choice.

If they go in a specific direction as you are suggestion, it means they must forego the other directions (I.E. Possibilities) in favor of that.

I believe RED's goal is to be "design neutral" as much as possible, allowing us to configure the camera to the individual's specs.

Personally, I like it this way.

Jay
 
I haven't met 1 professional shooter that likes RED design so far.
BTW, many of them use and appreciate the camera on daily basis.
But that's is pure fact: The design so far is loathed!
 
alexdias said:
I haven't met 1 professional shooter that likes RED design so far.
BTW, many of them use and appreciate the camera on daily basis.
But that's is pure fact: The design so far is loathed!
Click to expand...

How do you define "professional shooter"?

I'm not going to say I love the RED One ergonomics because there are indeed lots of little things that could have made it better. But like Jay said, they're going in a different direction and it is becoming quite apparent with the DSMC system. I think the modularity approach is the right track to follow with individual "brains". As technology progresses, those brains will only become smaller and the shape less important in terms configuration and ergonomic use.

I personally find the RED One with a proper handle system like the Mantis, or even uGrip or Tangohead, is often more ergonomic than many HD camera systems. Even though the RED One isn't modular in the sense of the DSMC system, it still provides a lot of configuration options to distribute wight where it's needed.

I have found no ergonomic issues with the RED that have kept me from wanting to use one or kept me from wanting to own one. Biggest complaint over the RED One from me is the controls on the rear where I have to work around the touchy power button and the power and drive cable connections.

Plenty of us out there using the camera on a daily basis who don't loathe the design. Yes it has problems. What camera design does not? Am I allowed to say that there are things about an Arri 235 that I don't like?
 
Hopefully the new designs will allow different ergonomic configs for different uses. The modules are much more compact and lightweight than R1.
I would like to see some slick alternatives to the rats nest of cables and borg implants hanging off R1's for sure. A significant part of that is already solved with the module bus connectors. Scarlet and Epic should allow for much cleaner configs.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Are you willing to entertain the idea that perhaps they looked at Arri's design and decided not to go that way?
Click to expand...

You mean like Yugo was looking around at car designs and chose the Fiat 128 design like the lime green nightmare my mother drove when I was in 6th grade instead of the Aston-Martin Mk4 V8 "Oscar India"? Heh...nope. Hadn't considered that.

Look, the Red One appears to be a camera built around a sensor. This is obviously speculation (since Red is so tight-lipped about the origins of their sensor), but it seems like Jim Jannard got a line on an 11.4 megapixel APS sensor that was capable of delivering data at a very advanced rate and he quickly (amazingly quickly) built a camera around it. There's been a lot of speculation that it was a demilitarized sensor, so the R&D may be attributable to military budgets. It doesn't matter where the sensor came from, though. The important part is that he had the vision to see that it would make an excellent cinema camera and brought in people to stuff it in a project box and make it more or less work in the way intended, even though early units had to be recalled and scrapped, there were heat problems, some features took a long time to implement, etc. Still, the point is that his company achieved an amazing thing.

But form factor wasn't one of those things and still isn't. Hail Red all day long for bringing 4K to the masses, but we didn't see them win a lot of awards for groundbreaking industrial design. And they're still delivering renders of Quake 5 weapons instead of user-friendly camera designs. None of which will matter as long as the cameras perform as promised.
 
haha Jimm i expected this news.. now i can imagine to make one ''SLUM DOG BILLIONAIR'' with scarlet lol
 
RRJackson said:
And they're still delivering renders of Quake 5 weapons instead of user-friendly camera designs.
Click to expand...

I'm more in love with carrying around a Quake 5 Weapon then a bread and butter case like design in Chrome and Plastic. Maybe that's why I love the design of the red products? :shiftyph34r:

George
 
GPSchnyder said:
I'm more in love with carrying around a Quake 5 Weapon then a bread and butter case like design in Chrome and Plastic.
Click to expand...

Yeah, until you do it all day for a few days and have ribbed dents all over your hands from where the flux capacitor was digging into you. Heh...

Some of the ugliest cameras I've ever owned have been amazingly comfortable to use. I have an old Canon Scoopic 16M that I've had for years. Used to belong to US Borax for their in-house industrial stuff. Hideously mongoloid ugly, but you can walk around with it all day and not get tired. Of course, you show it to people and they're like, "That thing actually works?" Yeah, and it has a 12.5-75mm f/1.8 (T/2.5) Macro lens, too. So stop making fun of it. ;-)

http://flickr.com/photos/r_jackson/2938901891/
 
RRJackson said:
....... Yeah, and it has a 12.5-75mm f/1.8 (T/2.5) Macro lens, too. So stop making fun of it. ;-)

http://flickr.com/photos/r_jackson/2938901891/
Click to expand...

That shit drives me nuts. What an amazing piece of glass, and how old? We get garbage glass, that's slow as hell, on a $1000.00 DSLR starter kit, that's not even full frame. We get $500.00 point and shoots with an f4.0 lens and its sensor is a fraction of the size. I mean how hard is it to make decent glass for a target area that's 25% the size of a stamp. When will manufacturers stop trying to solve the problem with pixels?

rant off :)

So I assume that the Scoopic lens wouldn't cover 2K on the Red? Imagine if it did? I gotta believe you could buy those Scoopics for pennies?

Cheers,
Chris
 
GPSchnyder said:
I'm more in love with carrying around a Quake 5 Weapon then a bread and butter case like design in Chrome and Plastic. Maybe that's why I love the design of the red products? :shiftyph34r:

George
Click to expand...

RRJackson said:
Yeah, until you do it all day for a few days and have ribbed dents all over your hands from where the flux capacitor was digging into you. Heh...
Click to expand...

More like second degree burns from the heat they shed.
 
The Scoopic 16M came out in 1973, back when TV news was being shot on 16mm reversal. It was one of those old "Film at 11!" cameras.

You've gotta remember, though, that smaller formats can have faster optics without the size of the lens getting out of hand. 16mm cameras frequently have fairly fast zoom lenses. There were even faster optics available for Super-8 cameras. I used to have a Schneider-Kreuznach 6-70mm f/1.4 power zoom lens for my old Beaulieu 7008.

So, and this is just rough, the Bealieu (in 35mm still photography equivalents) had about a 45-500mm f/1.4 lens, but its aperture was HUGE compared to the overall focal length of the lens and the size of the film, while still being a relatively small lens. Remember the size of the Super-8mm frame was only something like 4.2mm x 6.2mm. This is close to Sony's 1/2" EX-1 sensor size, so if you think about it the EX-1's lens is roughly equal to a 31.4 to 439mm lens at f/1.9, so it's not that far off.

Then the Scoopic's lens had a range (again in 35mm still photography equivalents) of about 35-200mm at f/1.8, but again the frame was only around 7.5mm x 10mm (slightly bigger than 2/3" video). A lot of 2/3" video cameras come with lenses that outperform this. I know Canon makes an 8.5-113mm f/1.8 lens that's like a 28-560mm f/1.8 on 35mm. Of course, it's an $8000 lens and considered to be kind of on the cheap side as 2/3" pro lenses go.

It's all relative with optics. That's why Olympus can put out f/2 DSLR zooms that aren't huge. Their sensor is a quarter the size of a 35mm frame.

KnockOutFilms said:
That shit drives me nuts. What an amazing piece of glass, and how old? We get garbage glass, that's slow as hell, on a $1000.00 DSLR starter kit, that's not even full frame. We get $500.00 point and shoots with an f4.0 lens and its sensor is a fraction of the size. I mean how hard is it to make decent glass for a target area that's 25% the size of a stamp. When will manufacturers stop trying to solve the problem with pixels?

rant off :)

So I assume that the Scoopic lens wouldn't cover 2K on the Red? Imagine if it did? I gotta believe you could buy those Scoopics for pennies?

Cheers,
Chris
Click to expand...
 
Another Thumbs up for the DSMC's. If what we see in these renders is what a basic recording Scarlet/Epic looks like, this is A WINNER. Imagine the camera angles you could get with this! Or the places you could go to shoot with this for documentaries! The trully ultimate location guerrila camera!

And nothing stops us to add the additional modules, like HD-SDI out, XLR Audio, etc. to it when more controlable and ideal shooting situations are available- and add rails and configure it to be the most ergonomical possible.

Yes, bare bones, it will look close to a DSLR, and potential market's clients will think its a cheap camera, but this configuration is brilliant also because of this.

This design is Genius. Its Brilliant, RED TEAM. Now please throw as a bone with a tentative release date for us to plan our productions! We promise not to annoy you guys in case of a new delay :) (yeah right :) )
 
SPZ said:
Another Thumbs up for the DSMC's. If what we see in these renders is what a basic recording Scarlet/Epic looks like, this is A WINNER. Imagine the camera angles you could get with this! Or the places you could go to shoot with this for documentaries! The trully ultimate location guerrila camera!

And nothing stops us to add the additional modules, like HD-SDI out, XLR Audio, etc. to it when more controlable and ideal shooting situations are available- and add rails and configure it to be the most ergonomical possible.

Yes, bare bones, it will look close to a DSLR, and potential market's clients will think its a cheap camera, but this configuration is brilliant also because of this.

This design is Genius. Its Brilliant, RED TEAM. Now please throw as a bone with a tentative release date for us to plan our productions! We promise not to annoy you guys in case of a new delay :) (yeah right :) )
Click to expand...

Seriously, this sounds like a late night infomercial. Like for that "slanket" or the "cham wow". Non american TV watchers can be thankful they don't know what I'm talking about. Who are you SPZ ?

I'm excited about the camera too, BTW.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Matt Uhry said:
Seriously, this sounds like a late night infomercial. Like for that "slanket" or the "cham wow". Non american TV watchers can be thankful they don't know what I'm talking about. Who are you SPZ ?

I'm excited about the camera too, BTW.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
Click to expand...

A non american who watches too much american tv! :)

Anyway, its brilliant, its fantastic, its everything you want on a camera and more! And all this for a mere...$$$! :)
 
RRJackson said:
Yeah, until you do it all day for a few days and have ribbed dents all over your hands from where the flux capacitor was digging into you. Heh...
SNIP
http://flickr.com/photos/r_jackson/2938901891/
Click to expand...

Well, that's what I'm talking about. And as I grow up carrying Quake 1 Weapons around I'll come over it ;-)

But you're kinda right. Anyway, I'll use the cam mounted to a tripod or to my DV Multirig Pro.

Matt Uhry said:
Seriously, this sounds like a late night infomercial. Like for that "slanket" or the "cham wow". Non american TV watchers can be thankful they don't know what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

Well, we know. We get the same bad stuff (yeah, the infomercials) badly dubbed in our language. 8-0
 
Matt Uhry said:
Seriously, this sounds like a late night infomercial. Like for that "slanket" or the "cham wow". [/url]
Click to expand...

ShamWow rulez! I collected a couple in a bag of trade show swag a few months ago. :)
 
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