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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Steven Soderberh’s State Of Cinema Talk

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"Mark, I simpatize with you as I have been in there more then once for the past several years with 3 different Projects... And because of their absurdities they lost me fundings more then once... But I am most positive we'll find a way... " Ketch Rossi

Ketch, if you do, and I do hope that you-do, it will likely not be with a major US Distributor!

Humberto Rivera
 
Good Man, Ketch, I hope all the best for you and your projects, you deserved it!

On a different topic, consensual agreement with a “Distributor – Studio” is like agreeing to be violated by the “Big Guys”! Why do people agree to do-it, I guess for many reasons, including THEIR DECEPTIVE TACTICS? I suppose that proof might be provided to them, like I and others have said herein! I guess they just go right-in and do-it. I suppose the temptation of a big-payday is just too much. Denial, it’s all over the landscape, and they consensually do-it. What you get up-front is all your going to get, go figure!

“Daniel Radcliffe” for being as famous as he is with the “Harry Porter Film”, can’t seem to find decent parts in other films. He sure could have used some-more of that Warner Brother’s “coin”, I mean he did work on them (WB) for “Ten Years” he grew up before our eyes. His “Box Office Mojo” is a decent $2,244,460,601; http://boxofficemojo.com/people/chart/?view=Actor&id=danielradcliffe.htm

I’ll say it again; “Anything you say in the “Movie Business” is “True”, no matter how outrageous it may be”! Well there is President Obama on the local Costa Rican channel, Live, so I’ll go look at-it!

Humberto Rivera
 
Candidly, as even Mr Soderbergh notes, there are fewer exhibition ticket dollars being split by more small films.
Another problem is that most films are terrible. well over 90% of them.
and now to pick a fight...
Most people on this forum are CAMERA professionals, or on track to become them.
If this were "experiencedfilmproducerdotcom," more projects we discuss on here would be in distribution, and possibly making money. But we are *mostly* not members of such a club.
Yes, I know that there are several experienced and working producers on this site, and I am one, but the majority of the people here honestly are not able to know if the next feature they shoot is based on a good script or not, and may not actually be able to tell if the cast is any good.

This is not surprising, because the owner operator is not usually part of working in an environment where the results of their work are widely seen.

I would also venture to say that a very large segment of our membership does not even know what the structure of a professional crew and toolset is.

I say this from reading the questions in the Cinematography, Audio, and numerous other segments. Frequently I see questions and discussions on physical special effects and atmospherics that also reveal the amateur nature of large parts of the forum.

I bet 70% of the people on the site have no idea how to direct an experienced actor. Again.. it's a camera forum, so that's not our focus.

I make no judgement on the post production segments, as I am not an expert there either.

Now the good news for all of the amateur and semi pros:
If you have an original idea that you somehow manage to present well, you have the same shot at getting lucky and being seen that any other indie film does. If your film is great, it will be seen. However, it will not take in tens of millions of dollars.

Why? Because your low budget production did not support the infrastructure of a major film making entity. There is no reason for the resources to make it well known in the outside world to be spent by a studio, or major distributor.

Yeah, I have heard of Blair Witch. I know a few of the elements there very well indeed, so don't tell me any stories about their business model.
 
Christopher Mills said:
Candidly, as even Mr Soderbergh notes, there are fewer exhibition ticket dollars being split by more small films.
Another problem is that most films are terrible. well over 90% of them.
and now to pick a fight...
Most people on this forum are CAMERA professionals, or on track to become them.
If this were "experiencedfilmproducerdotcom," more projects we discuss on here would be in distribution, and possibly making money. But we are *mostly* not members of such a club.
Yes, I know that there are several experienced and working producers on this site, and I am one, but the majority of the people here honestly are not able to know if the next feature they shoot is based on a good script or not, and may not actually be able to tell if the cast is any good.

This is not surprising, because the owner operator is not usually part of working in an environment where the results of their work are widely seen.

I would also venture to say that a very large segment of our membership does not even know what the structure of a professional crew and toolset is.

I say this from reading the questions in the Cinematography, Audio, and numerous other segments. Frequently I see questions and discussions on physical special effects and atmospherics that also reveal the amateur nature of large parts of the forum.

I bet 70% of the people on the site have no idea how to direct an experienced actor. Again.. it's a camera forum, so that's not our focus.

I make no judgement on the post production segments, as I am not an expert there either.

Now the good news for all of the amateur and semi pros:
If you have an original idea that you somehow manage to present well, you have the same shot at getting lucky and being seen that any other indie film does. If your film is great, it will be seen. However, it will not take in tens of millions of dollars.

Why? Because your low budget production did not support the infrastructure of a major film making entity. There is no reason for the resources to make it well known in the outside world to be spent by a studio, or major distributor.

Yeah, I have heard of Blair Witch. I know a few of the elements there very well indeed, so don't tell me any stories about their business model.
Click to expand...

The other side of the coin. And yes, I agree that many on here don't understand the Studios' enormous costs for labor, the taxes, the maintenance, the executive salaries etc. etc. that are paid for by movie product. Using that argument one can sort of see the other side. But something has to change in order to not alienate the creatives.

For me, both your words and Soderbergh's words make it clear to me that I have to find another way of making a movie and profiting from it. That is, I have to follow something like the Tyler Perry model and make my content outside the Hollywood bubble. Then I have to either look for new distribution avenues or at least settle the distribution payment up front by taking a set amount without expectation of sharing in any profits.

Something just has to change so that distribution isn't the decider of what gets made and what is abandoned. My hopes and dollars are on ODEMAX or something similar that puts censorship of a movie in the hands of audiences and not a few (by comparison) execs.
 
I think, we’re missing an important point! The “Studio Model” is flawed! By designed is meant put unnecessary obstacle in the way of the Filmmakers, regardless of whether they are “Big Names” or “The Little Guy”, the STUDIOS WANT AS MUCH A POSSIBLE!

Humberto Rivera
 
Elsie,
I am pretty familiar with the filmmaker you mention (check my IMDB) and know a lot of backstory on his success.
At its root is that he had a great sense of his otherwise unserved audience, and a very shrewd business partner. They have created some unique business deals with theatrical distribution and cable tv.
I admire their business sense. The engine that runs it is an extremely prolific screenwriter and efficient director who put in ten years of unrewarded hard work to get into position to make films.

The way to success is to find your niche, and satisfy it. If you have great ideas, it'll happen for you!
 
I also think that when dealing with Studio’s in Particular or with Smaller Distributors (I’ll hold on the names) you have WATCH-IT when you make the all important “Deal Memo”; afterwards it’s all downhill.

Now when I say AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, the Studios do-it with style, with finesse, it’s all an act of deception, like a magician, what you read is not what’s really going on! Of course there are always the courts, your estate might eventually win, but it will be the estate, or someone like “Art Buchwald” who outlived them, and his settlement is a secret because Paramount did not want to reveal their accounting practices. May he “Rest In Peace” while Paramount continues!

I’ll referrer you all the “Abovementioned”; “Anything you say in the “Movie Business” is “True”, no matter how outrageous it may be”!

Humberto Rivera
 
Without taking this thread "off topic" I agree entirely with Mark.

Australia is a tiny nation of 23 million, distribution is "F@#%^^!". It makes for enlightened reading in researching just how little money some of Australia's biggest commercial successes in the last decade have made for the film makers.

The only hope is in new 21st century distribution models.

I'm also glad I've got a great day job .
 
Mike Garrick said:
Without taking this thread "off topic" I agree entirely with Mark.

Australia is a tiny nation of 23 million, distribution is "F@#%^^!". It makes for enlightened reading in researching just how little money some of Australia's biggest commercial successes in the last decade have made for the film makers.

The only hope is in new 21st century distribution models.

I'm also glad I've got a great day job .
Click to expand...

Australia has the same problem as SS says Hollywood has: people making funding choices not based on a love of cinema but some other motivation like weekend grosses or, in Australia's case: a spurious notion of cultural import. Art isn't meant to be didactic - just write a column, it's much cheaper (and more people will see it).

There should be a TV on the wall of the funding body office playing NOT QUITE HOLLYWOOD on loop.
 
Unfortunately Brett, in Australia this is a reality, we have public servants funding media for dubious outcomes.......that public servants like.

Bring back 10BA (or similar international schemes) & let the market place decide.

Back on thread
Interesting comments from Soderbergh ...I'm sort of wondering what will happen when the viewing audience grows tried of Superheros & explosions & cgi. As sure as night follows day it will happen. Maybe some new blood studio execs can grasp the potential & maybe draft Soderbergh back from TV land and make a killing.
 
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I'm writing this after a couple of drinks in a night out so bare with me with the bad english grammar and lack of correction- I'm writing this on my phone.

The thing is, ultimately- what do we have to say? What will we be remembered for? I personally don't want to be remembered for being the guy that did some excellent motorsports commercials or videos back in the early 2000's. that's what I do professionally and do like to do, but is this what I have to say? In other words, do I have anything else to say or show to the ones that come after me that is at least worth their time ? I think I do. There's a portuguese saying that is"plant a tree, write a book and be a parent, that's the ticket to have a fullfiling life." Making a film is our own way of writing that book, I think.

Its damn hard, practicaly impossible if comercial success is "the" goal- but it shouldn't be .
 
I fundamentally think that if you have a story you are obsessed with telling, you should tell it.
If you do a good job and an audience is put into contact with it, you will also have financial success. You may have that success. Your great project may not.
 
As sure as there is a God in the Heavens, there are men and women trying to make films on Earth that reflect Humans onto themselves, THERE ARE DISTRIBUTORS WHO WILL DO WHATEVER; TO TAKE IT ALL FOR THEMSELVES. It has to be legal, or it will not work for the Distributor! It has to be consensual on the part of the “Copyright Holder”, usually some sort of Corporation!

“Proof”, “Precedents”, and “Advice” “Be-Dam”, there will always be one to take the BAIT, and that’s just the way it-is. If you really think about-it that’s one of the reasons why the famous Auction Markets of; Sundance, Cannes, Venice, San Sebastian, Tokyo, AFM, Toronto, Berlin and the infinitum markets that EXISTS. The famous and not so famous markets popping all over “Planet Earth”, with their “Film Festivals”, and a real possibility to sell their films for a pittance of what they cost to make, that’s what keeps the exhausted filmmaker up-at night, they have reached the end of their path, and for many it has been a long road.

In spite of it all, man has had the need to be heard; the North American Native People with their Sand Paintings that the artist destroyed after it was done; the British Playwright William Shakespeare (or whoever was behind Him), his works span centuries before his time, Julius Caesar comes to mind; Aristotle and his discourse before the Senate; there are many example throughout history, we have a visceral need to be heard, and the masses want to hear us, it’s the Distributor that’s in the middle of the modern day Filmmaker!

Some forums are more difficult than others, like here in “reduser.net”, that’s easy, just sing-up and start writing so people throughout the “Planet Earth” can read what you have to say, you can interact with them, and the company “Honchos”. In the world of “Independent Filmmaking”, or the “Big Studio Tent Pole” films it’s a bit more difficult. One must choose the challenge he wants to face. I always go back to my saying; “Anything you say in the “Movie Business” is “True”, no matter how outrageous it may be”!

But you don’t have to come looking for a US Distributor, there are lots of Films being created in Latin America, Europe, India is certainly has big Motion Industry (actually the largest), China is developing a huge market (they’ve become number two) with it ever growing domestic market, Russia has an expanding market, the United Kingdom is on-par with Hollywood as far as Actors, Directors and Producers, and they do decent job of creating a home film market. Have you notice HBO has recently distributed three series all done in Latin America, in their Native language. Let’s be clear, I am not saying; don’t release in the US and Canada, which by default includes the UK, Australia, and New Zealand, I’m just saying be smart about it.

I think were the US Distributors has a shrinking-rule has been on the area of; “Technical Competence”. Some American actors going in for an audition have found THEY ARE NOT from Australia, what a surprise! Now, if within the content of these markets, one creates a “Break out Film”, by that I mean ONE the whole world wants to see-it! Distributors’ models are changing; it’s possible to exploit the worlds “sans” the USA. The USA will take notice and come looking for it.

Take the “Girl with the dragon Tattoo”, three locally produced films were made, yet Hollywood decided to-do a fourth but according to their terms. But what are their terms, the original three had a pretty good dub in English because I saw all of them, they had worldwide distribution. So why a forth film, because it was on the US Distributor Terms, A FOREVER CASH COW AND a COPYRIGHT. Why do you think that big Hollywood film are first distributed one or two weeks before in World Markets before the USA, It use to-be other way around. Remember a US Produce film has a “TEN YEAR EXPLOITATION LIFE”! The theatrical release is just the first of many, BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT, what happens next is based on how well it did in its “Theatrical Opening”! Now we talk about World Wide Box Office Numbers!

I must say, the Red Digital Camera Company has made-it much easier to tell our stories, the new “Dragon Sensor”, “Smaller Cameras”, “Comparatively Low Price”, “No-Cables”, the “Epic-X Dragon” will be the “Premier Tool” bared-none, specially with “Master Primes” on-it. The playing field has finally been flattened; everyone stars from the same place. There are still lots of differences, there will always be; Budgets some big, some small, but there is much better place to start from because of the Red “Epic-X Dragon”. Red has always GONE AGAINST THE GRAIN, and that bothers some people, or camera maker who previous were the “Kings of the Hill” think how this comparative little company managed to get ahead of them all, that’s progress. You can tell by how the questions put to “Steven Soderberh” were framed, I belief the reporter was not aware of how far Red has come! Arri, Canon, and Sony keep banging at the Gates.

He who holds The Gold, controls the situation, we have two entities holding The Gold; FIRST the EXHIBITOR, they have to turn over the revenues because of their transparent position, and obviously they want the next product from the Distributor; SECOND the DISTRIBUTOR, they have endless ways to “Get Product”, they are lining up-along the passageways, and they are NOT SO TRANSPARENT WITH THEIR BUSINESS DEALINGS. They also have a good “wrap” for the filmmaker or anyone else they have to pay. The only biding done is by “Union and Guild Contracts” they have to pay the residuals, that they cannot go around, so they get paid without much to-do, in reality the Distributors/Studios are afraid of a STRIKE!

A film happens at a moment in time, when it’s projected on the screen, before an audience! Otherwise it’s just a thing waiting to come on stage to get projected; it’s nothing yet, not until the moment of projection before its audience, that’s when it comes to life. So if you’re going to make a film, think that you have to include distribution, your job will not be complete till it’s shown before an audience. Don’t know how you’re going to do-it, but you have to take the presentation before an audience into consideration, it might be Worldwide or a Small Theater, that up-to-you and the path you choose. It’s time for a new distribution model! ODEMAX may-be a way, I just don’t have enough information, we’ll see!

At the end it’s about the money, how much have you accumulated in order to go the distance, $10,000, $100,000, $10,000,000 or $100,000,000? Remember, when you negotiate with a Studio, THEIR GOAL IS TO GET-IT-ALL, it does not have to be that way, but that’s the TIME AND PLACE to do-it, have a good team of lawyers and accountants on your side, they certainly will!

Humberto Rivera
 
Well said Humberto!
BTW.. if the film maker does sign their project with the unions in the USA, and makes sure that their own tasks as writer and director are covered by the agreement, it will make the distributors pass more residuals on to them. Not as many as you are entitled to, but more than you would otherwise get.
 
Sunday’s in Costa Rica are sometime slow going! Sometimes I think about William Shakespeare’s line; “All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players: They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts, His acts being seven ages.”, that has really come to roust with modern day Filmmaker’s, running around with their “Red Epic X Dragon”. Locations throughout the “Planet Earth”, for the big and small filmmakers; theatrical and documentaries; an over abundance of stories to tell, all with a relatively inexpensive camera, which has sold many copies, throughout the world. Check-it out “All the world's a stage” at; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_the_world's_a_stage

It reminds me of looking at photos from the Civil War; they lost their value as a family heirloom and became important historical records of the time. That’s were many of today “High Resolution” images from the “Red Epic X Dragon” are going to end up in the distance future.

Humberto Rivera
 
Studios have a DISADVANTAGE, they are always behind the “Eight-Ball” when it comes to predicting the FUTURE, and they make bad deals on their rush to make a QUICK PROFIT. It takes them a while to get ahead of the game! As it has happened over and over, they have always been a scary lot, their first reaction to everything has been to be against-it; Television, DVD, Streaming of a video signal, just to name a few, they are not in the “End All Game” far from-it! It takes them a while to catch-up! Take a look at the List of World Wide Distributors, you have many options. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Motion_Picture_Distributors

Their Ace in the hold was “Technical Competence” and “35mm Motion Picture Film”, and their subsequent release on 35mm Film! It took thousands of feet to shoot, print, and conform. Then it took endless number of prints, in endless languages, and subtitles to distribute throughout the World. Just in FedEx fees it was a Huge Expense!! But No More, we have digital cinema, and is getting easier by the day. 35mm Film Motion Picture was replaced with the “Red Epic X Dragon”, film distribution was replaced with Digital World Distribution; a major expense has fallen forever!

The sheer numbers of Independent Films Produces throughout the World has managed to put pressure on the Wide Release Studio Fare. Now the Studios are looking to get in lucrative Markets such as; China, India, Germany, Italy, Spain, Korea and Latin America, just to name a few; http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/stu...s-into-lucrative-global-business/#more-490513

So go Figure, they are always going to be there, but what you need to do is get ahead of them!

Humberto Rivera
 
i agree with your sentiment, humberto, but let's be careful about over-generalizations and supporting stereotypes. a studio is a neutral entity, and whether there's a new studio or a transformed studio that steps up over the next few years i'll be glad to see it regardless of place or past sins. the most powerful thing i can do at this point is try to encourage change from outside (and onto) the current structure, but there are some that are positioned within the status quo and if they've decided (or have been dictated by survival) to stay there i really hope they can find empowerment. what i'm most concerned about in this transitional moment is that we'll substitute one robber baron for another, or else all changes will remain at the surface level.

as long as art is first and foremost commerce there can be no real change - we've been dealing with this for at least a thousand years already... i'm prepared for battle, even if it means i go down fighting for what i believe in, even if it means my work is marginalized - i would rather lose everything than do nothing. maybe it will inspire those more capable and more talented than i to stand up where i fall. /speech
 
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