Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Starting camera for cinematography?

A

Adelia Laurent

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I'm 18, been into photography for a little bit and I would like to extend into videography. I hope mainly to shoot indie film and short films for music. As a side note, I've heard a lot of people say to start out with a basic consumer camcorder but I know that's not something I want. I want to have a little bit of a learning curve, that way I can actually learn. I also would like to have the benefits of the higher quality and extra control that a regular handycam couldn't provide. I also know that "it's not about the camera, but the person holding it"... I've been reading up and watching videos about techniques, gear, and vocabulary associated with film and am building a basic knowledge of the art. Anyway, right now it's just a matter of where to start. Any suggestions for what type of camera, supplies, or anything else I'll need to start will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
aTQS9
 
Adelia Laurent said:
I'm 18, been into photography for a little bit and I would like to extend into videography. I hope mainly to shoot indie film and short films for music. As a side note, I've heard a lot of people say to start out with a basic consumer camcorder but I know that's not something I want. I want to have a little bit of a learning curve, that way I can actually learn. I also would like to have the benefits of the higher quality and extra control that a regular handycam couldn't provide. I also know that "it's not about the camera, but the person holding it"... I've been reading up and watching videos about techniques, gear, and vocabulary associated with film and am building a basic knowledge of the art. Anyway, right now it's just a matter of where to start. Any suggestions for what type of camera, supplies, or anything else I'll need to start will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
aTQS9
Click to expand...

I know this is a Red forum, but I would suggest Blackmagic 4K camera - 4K for $3K and a S35/APS-C sensor (i.e. roughly the same size as cinema Super 35 that cinema lenses have been designed for), low cost media, raw or Pro Res recording, Canon mount so you can use canon still lenses, most other still lenses with adapters, and many cinema lenses are now also being made with Canon mounts, and there is even A PL mount available.

so lot of bang for a relatively low cost and very little down side, that gives you pretty much everything you need to learn the craft.
 
The only consideration you have here, is budget. If you can afford it, I would suggest buying a dragon and a full set of Anamorphics to go with it. 99% of the people on here will tell you to start with a dslr or BM camera, but honestly, I would buy the best camera money can buy. If you're serious about the craft, learning with a tool that limits your imagination the least is the best option. That being said, a hacked 5D3 is an amazing tool, and forces you to get serious about post, which is another very important aspect of cinematography.

In a simpler bunch of words, don't buy a handycam (like you weren't going to anyway), buy a camera that doesn't crop more than 1.6 x, that shoots raw and can adapt Nikkor or canon glass. There are a few out there for you to investigate.... And the best way to do that is through a rental house :)

All the best!

*edit

Sorry, just read Michael's post....
 
First thing you need to do is set a budget for the camera, and all associated gear needed, such as tripod, monitor, memory cards, lenses, any audio, and the like.

Once you have stated your intended budget the kind folks here might be better able to direct you in the right direction.
 
If I was 18 and wanted to shoot films I would go to the gbigest / nearest cinema camera rental place and offer my services for free. It's definitely a great place to learn about the tech, meet the right people and possibly also get access to the best gear possible... And when you been there for a few months you know for sure what camera you want to get.
 
Something that hardly ever gets mentioned is your network of contacts - I started at the bottom, as a P.A. on big budget film sets; changing garbage bins and doing grunt work moving sandbags and having every grip with a gripe yell at me. All the time watching, asking questions and learning. Using whatever camera I could rent / borrow in order to try out stuff.

That was 20 years ago...

I now have a peer group that extends to every department; with a knowledge base that is way deeper than watching YouTube tutorial videos could ever give me. For the most part the cameras along the way have been inconsequential; far more important has been constantly building my knowledge of framing, lighting, art department colour and texture - and of course who to call / hire in order to achieve those things.

In my equipment room are a bunch of obsolete camera systems: Arri 16M, Med format still cameras, Bolex, a variety of Super 8's, HVX 200's, Af 100's, etc. + the RED's I currently own and use to shoot my own projects. I also can walk onto sets where I'm just a hired hand and run / use just about everything from Arri's to 5D's.

The camera never mattered - it still doesn't. There is so much more to the image than lens, sensor, recording format, blah blah blah. A real cinematographer can show up and weave an incredible picture with whatever shit camera production drops down.
 
I learned by shooting Super-8 film, for almost a decade actually. I got pretty good at it by the time I moved up to 16mm. There is something to be said about learning to get the most out of a system of limited quality because then you'll learn what you'll need for the next level. But it's important that whatever camera you use has manual controls for aperture, shutter, focus, etc. so you learn what each of those do and you can make short films in the style of bigger-budget films in terms of camera operation.
 
Gh4 with 12-35 will get you into the game and at your age, it is the camera along with the GoPro that most of your peers will be getting. It is a versatile stills/motion shooter. There is a ton of people sharing info on the best way to use this camera. Get a zoom h5 and a mic or two to learn syncing sound, and, get a free copy of Resolve 11 lite, which now has basic editing functions and you might be Francis Ford Coppolas fat chick with a beta cam that will shake up the world. Good luck.
 
Last edited:
Adelia Laurent said:
I'm 18, been into photography for a little bit and I would like to extend into videography. I hope mainly to shoot indie film and short films for music. As a side note, I've heard a lot of people say to start out with a basic consumer camcorder but I know that's not something I want. I want to have a little bit of a learning curve, that way I can actually learn. I also would like to have the benefits of the higher quality and extra control that a regular handycam couldn't provide. I also know that "it's not about the camera, but the person holding it"... I've been reading up and watching videos about techniques, gear, and vocabulary associated with film and am building a basic knowledge of the art. Anyway, right now it's just a matter of where to start. Any suggestions for what type of camera, supplies, or anything else I'll need to start will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
aTQS9
Click to expand...

The difficulty you have is that the less control over the camera you have the more you will focus on composition, and vice versa. Do you need a technical primer or an aesthetic one?

If you want a good technical primer get a Canon dSLR and a few decent lenses. Then you will need to light to about 640ISO/800ISO (too muddy much above that) or find as much available light so you will be playing with light levels that translate to Alexa and Epic shoots and light levels gaffers are familiar with and the camera will be dirt cheap (a t3i is fine, they use similar for national ads and b cameras for major series). Then spend money on lenses that will work well with every major system as EF mount is a standard now.

If you are indeed working on "indie film" then your producer will rent an Alexa, Epic, or similar. Owning anything between the high end (Alexa) and low end (7D) puts you in an awkward position. Most decent DPs I know either own an Alexa or a 7D. If you have a little more money, the A7s and GH4 look cool, but they have a non-standard sensor size, which is a bit tricky.

If you want to develop a good eye, buy a point and shoot film camera from CVS or a film SLR with only a 50mm lens or something. Read textbooks on art history, primers on composition. Only shoot film. Then you will be forced to focus on composition and ratios and slow down. If you need practice, metering slide film is even better, but requires a spot meter. After a few weeks/months of that, go and shoot stills like mad on your digital SLR applying the same methodology and see if you haven't improved. Then go back to film and see if you haven't improved there, too. Different speeds inculcate different skills.

If you can shoot 16mm and edit on a flatbed. Much more important to shoot 16mm than to edit it unless you want to edit! But shoot reversal to start and of course bring a meter with you. This is an investment in your education more than in your reel, though you can get some amazing footage that sets you apart once you get your hands on something better than a Bolex and Tri-X. But this will help so much and anyone who hasn't shot 16mm is missing out. This is the one thing you get in film school that you can't get anywhere else and pretty soon won't even be able to get there. Get your hands on a Bolex and some film to get the closest experience for yourself.

The following have really helped me. Not that I am much further than you at this point, I am still working to break in as a camera trainee/looking for a first job at a rental house and shooting no-budget videos... my kit was a dSLR a few years ago. It helped, along with these:

http://www.amazon.com/Bare-Bones-Camera-Course-Video/dp/0960371818 (the best)
http://www.amazon.com/Cinematograph...9&sr=1-1&keywords=cinematography+david+mullen (his thread is good, too; I have also heard the Blair Brown book is good)
http://www.amazon.com/Film-Lighting-Hollywoods-Cinematographers-Gaffers/dp/0671766341

Also, when you can afford to, hire a good gaffer! Then you will be using the same lighting techniques your favorite DPs use.

I also found shooting 4x5 helped. 4x5 stills and 16mm motion force you to slow down. Even with digital, I would necessarily carry a light meter, the dual meters are nice but incident is all you really need and the Spectras are favored by most professionals. Any time I see a cameraman operating without a light meter I question if he knows his stuff; often good DPs don't use them, but the best usually do. :) Although... I have caught a lot of gaffers and DPs using them wrong and it's just embarrassing. But get an incident meter, the Spectras are cheap and the best.

And a decent tripod!!!

But the funny thing is I know of really great DPs who haven't the faintest clue technically. They just have a good eye and access to good crew. That is what you really need to work on. Your community and your eye. If you have a good eye and a good attitude, you can attract a good community. Start ACing! Work at a rental place.

That is what I wish I had done sooner. I am trying to get my first gig as camera trainee or possibly get a job at a camera rental place now. A few years ago I was where you are and I had good luck doing the above, but what I wish I had done was start gripping or ACing! Then you will grow technically, aesthetically, and build a community.
 
Last edited:
Everyone is making good points and there's a ton of great advice so far on what to get and why. My suggestion would be the Panasonic FZ1000: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-fz1000. Its got everything you need in a first camera and nothing you don't. Well, I suppose you don't need 4K recording and 120 fps (1080p), but its nice to have... especially for less than $1,000. Think of it as a GH4 with a fixed zoom lens (25-400mm f2.8-4) made by Leica. In reality it doesn't even matter which camera you get. Your talent, curiosity, creativity and dedication will make or break you in this industry. Just get something and start shooting stuff. Good luck to you. Peace.
 
Are you just flat broke? My .02 (my son's in film school in Austin and this is about what I put together for him):

Used Canon T2i from ebay - under $300.
Memory card, high speed like class 6 or 10 will work - $30;
Couple extra batteries from Amazon - 2 for about $28.
A used 28mm 2.8 lens (about the "normal" FOV on that sensor). I got him a Nikon Series E AIS for $60 or so, there's tons of stuff out there though. Just don't get a "kit" lens or you'll have really limited options for depth of field. If you can get a 1.8, so much the better, but avoid the knee-jerk 50mm 1.8 - it's a very telephoto FOV on that sensor.
A "fancier" video tripod from Amazon (about $160 - but so good for the $$ I ended up with one for myself when we do a charity multicam shoot every holiday season).

That can be put together for under $600 if you shop wisely.

If you want to learn to shoot with a more "cinematic" style & feel than a small-chip video camera, that'll do it just fine. I shot many music videos and TV spots with that body (though much better glass!) back in the early DSLR days.

You can learn focus, exposure, color temp, and choosing the depth of field for your shots with nothing more than the above. I can't think of anything cheaper that will give you all the basics of a high-end feel.
 
Björn Benckert said:
If I was 18 and wanted to shoot films I would go to the gbigest / nearest cinema camera rental place and offer my services for free. It's definitely a great place to learn about the tech, meet the right people and possibly also get access to the best gear possible... And when you been there for a few months you know for sure what camera you want to get.
Click to expand...

Great advice Bjorn...
 
adobe creative suite is a nice place to start in post processing. It can also take u all the way through for shorts and indie films post production work flow. i would learn nuke and maya if i wanted hollywood quality post production. i btw really like my scarlet with nikon lenses. if your focus is on the camera i second David Mullens suggestion on super 8, will be a great learning experience and can be used as a base for more experimental post production. a cannon 5d mark 2 is also a great place to start. dont forget sound, thats half the experience ( sound device makes great gear ... gearslutz is the place to get advice on film audio) .
 
Any camera that allows for manual adjustment of any part, and a larger sensor than an ENG cameras will do to learn.

The problem is not the camera, the main challenge of a cinematographer is to translate an idea or story into motion or no motion of the camera, to know where to place the point of interest and point of view, as well to know a little bit more about lenses than is typically written in books.

Painting with lenses is key; as is painting with light and motion.

...reading since a quarter++ century any Cinematography book I can get my hands on, I can say that these are the core things that any cinematographer describes in the books as something "we" never stop exploring. The camera is only the central tool. Learn how it translates motion and light, with lenses. If you find your own "language in it, it is maybe not that difficult to know what camera you will need next ;o)

my 2cents
 
I'd suggest a Canon 7D DSLR. They're long in the tooth now, but they can still make decent pictures and are cheap as hell -- $1000 without lenses. Something as basic as this will allow you to learn all the essentials of lighting, composition, camera movement, and so on.

I agree there are more sophisticated solutions out there, but this one makes small files, reasonable pictures, plus you can always sell it and trade up for something else in the next few years. There have actually been a few small movies shot partially or completely on the 7D, and I think it's a perfectly good solution to learn on, plus there's a lot of good books on it out there.

I agree with MCarter's advice up there -- a used DSLR plus some basic gear (fluid head tripod, a few lenses, some basic lights) need not cost you too much on eBay. I would definitely not suggest going out and spending thousands and thousands of dollars on a 4K camera just yet.
 
Certainly a good advice, as the rumor is currently that the 7dm2 is on its way. Out of stock in some countries. Normally, this means you can get great offers, and the camera has a lot to offer.

Marc Wielage said:
I'd suggest a Canon 7D DSLR. They're long in the tooth now, but they can still make decent pictures and are cheap as hell -- $1000 without lenses. Something as basic as this will allow you to learn all the essentials of lighting, composition, camera movement, and so on.

I agree there are more sophisticated solutions out there, but this one makes small files, reasonable pictures, plus you can always sell it and trade up for something else in the next few years. There have actually been a few small movies shot partially or completely on the 7D, and I think it's a perfectly good solution to learn on, plus there's a lot of good books on it out there.

I agree with MCarter's advice up there -- a used DSLR plus some basic gear (fluid head tripod, a few lenses, some basic lights) need not cost you too much on eBay. I would definitely not suggest going out and spending thousands and thousands of dollars on a 4K camera just yet.
Click to expand...
 
Adelia Laurent said:
I'm 18, been into photography for a little bit and I would like to extend into videography. I hope mainly to shoot indie film and short films for music. As a side note, I've heard a lot of people say to start out with a basic consumer camcorder but I know that's not something I want. I want to have a little bit of a learning curve, that way I can actually learn. I also would like to have the benefits of the higher quality and extra control that a regular handycam couldn't provide. I also know that "it's not about the camera, but the person holding it"... I've been reading up and watching videos about techniques, gear, and vocabulary associated with film and am building a basic knowledge of the art. Anyway, right now it's just a matter of where to start. Any suggestions for what type of camera, supplies, or anything else I'll need to start will be greatly appreciated. Thanks
aTQS9
Click to expand...
The absolute best thing you can do for yourself is work at a rental house. If film schools are there to teach you the artistic side of filmmaking then rental houses are there to teach you the practical side of filmmaking. I got to intern at a rental house when I was 18 and not only did I learn cameras, but I also learned every other department's equipment as well. Having an overall knowledge of film equipment is an invaluable skill on set. You can also make some amazing contacts. In fact the reason I got hooked by the RED system was because I spent about 6 months 1st ac'ing for a DP that owned her own epic... And we met because she was working as a rental agent at the same house. Of course the more time you spend studying the asthetics of filmmaking the better you will get and I recommend watching anything you can get your hands on. However, FILM IS A COLLABORATIVE MEDIUM. So, the better you are at collaborating the better you will be as a filmmaker and the first giant leap you can take down that path is working at a rental house. (Plus, potential discounts on gear rentals is an amazing thing to be able to offer a production as freelance crew member!!!!)I also highly recommend going the website flickchart.com. It's a website that helps you create a list of what your personal favorite movies are. This will help tune your stylistic and critical eye so you know what works for you and what doesn't in a film. This is a highly specific and personal opinion so the only way for you to figure it out is for you to figure it out. However, once you have identified the key elements that "work" for you, then you can start consciously crafting your own personal style. Good luck out there and don't worry you are already on the right path because you are asking questions! P.S. The AFI top 100 lists are a great place to look if you ever want to watch a great movie.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top