STAR WARS: The Thread of Spoilers

[Trevor Emmerson]

This isn't the Prometheus of Star Wars

I don't think anyone dares throw an insult that grave around this early, but you could definitely make a connection between the wanting story and the fact JJ and Prometheus scribe Damon Lindeloff gave us the TV series Lost. One of the most polarising shows of all time, much maligned for for its disregard for traditional storytelling and sadistic manipulation of its captive audience. Star Wars was no Prometheus [which probably tops my own personal list of most hated films of all time] but where it is bad one could say its because it shares a little of the same DNA.

Generally though, story is more important to some people than others. Story is more important to some Directors than others. JJ is a hugely talented and capable Director and Producer and even Writer too in his own right. There is a story there in Force Awakens, he's spoken of many deleted scenes from the first cut, its just a question where plot development and story continuity ranks in the scheme of what gets left in and what gets thrown out of the final cut. I think Ridley Scott has hinted there's a 3 hour cut of Prometheus that makes a lot more sense than what went out to cinema's. Which is reassuring to know but extremely unhelpful when you're in the 50% of the audience sitting there watching and craving the detail.

In truth story seems to be becoming less and less important as Studio's push Directors to pack more and more action and special effects in and keep the run time down at the same time. They don't give Directors final cut, and they choose Directors who are happy to make that compromise and who's approach aligns comfortably with the style over substance cash out on opening weekend death trap. Star Wars is a licence to print money and Disney paid a lot of money for the rights and I guess its impossible to expect they would do anything else but follow the tried and tested formula for monetising their intellectual property. Risk averse, good but not great filmmaking, flashy trailers, sophisticated marketing campaigns. Load up on pre-sales and opening weekend takings, grab as much cash as possible before the reviews or word of mouth have a chance to spoil the party.

On the brights side there is plenty of scope in the Star Wars Universe for more satisfying stories to make it to screen in the one off's they are making outside the main trilogy. At least I hope.

 

[Marcus Friedlander]

Why has no one mentioned how amazing the camera work was in this film? Both from an aesthetic and a kinetic perspective.

First, the look was FANTASTIC!!!! I don't know if it has to do with shooting on film, shooting on Master Primes, or impeccable post production work, but the perfectly crisp and sharp, yet natural and organic feel fit the tone of this film perfectly! I caught myself smiling several times, just looking at the textures in the costumes or sets.

Also, I don't know about the rest of you, but I am a huge fan of JJ's dynamic camera movements. It's such an exciting way to tell a story and it brings so much life to the frame. So as long as the actors and situations can match the intensity of his cameras, he can create highly entertaining and enthralling action sequences.

 

[Luke Neumann]

Safe, predictable, yet still fun and enjoyable. Good acting, good nostalgic moments, and good VFX/camera work. Bad story and bad nostalgic moments.

I'm all for "echoes" of previous movies. I'm all for tie ins and callbacks. I could not, however, get past the onslaught of downright plagiarism from the previous films. When "The Hangover 2" does it, people tear it apart. When Star Wars does it, it is brilliant.

I thought it was fairly lazy, from an overall story standpoint and since I tend to care about that more than almost anything else in a film...I was pretty disappointed. There are SO many ways that they could have kept the spirit of the originals but changed it enough to feel different.

How about instead of blowing up the "Death Star" at the end of the first movie it actually survives until the end of the 3rd one? Instead of it just being another plot device it is a formidable fortress (like Mordor in LOTR?). There were SO many callbacks, both small and large, that I could barely tell A New Hope and this one apart. They switched a few roles and swapped genders and that is, literally, about it.

6/10. Like I said, not all bad. Just not 95% RT good. It's an average, dumb, over produced marketing movie. If you have grown tired of the Marvel films you will see a similar pattern here. Safe, easy, crowd pleasing. Ultimately fun and good escapism but NOTHING new and nothing that moves the series forward.

Hoping the next one can change that. Maybe this was just the transition film.

 

[NOSA OBAYIUWANA]

Safe, predictable, yet still fun and enjoyable. Good acting, good nostalgic moments, and good VFX/camera work. Bad story and bad nostalgic moments.

I'm all for "echoes" of previous movies. I'm all for tie ins and callbacks. I could not, however, get past the onslaught of downright plagiarism from the previous films. When "The Hangover 2" does it, people tear it apart. When Star Wars does it, it is brilliant.

I thought it was fairly lazy, from an overall story standpoint and since I tend to care about that more than almost anything else in a film...I was pretty disappointed. There are SO many ways that they could have kept the spirit of the originals but changed it enough to feel different.

How about instead of blowing up the "Death Star" at the end of the first movie it actually survives until the end of the 3rd one? Instead of it just being another plot device it is a formidable fortress (like Mordor in LOTR?). There were SO many callbacks, both small and large, that I could barely tell A New Hope and this one apart. They switched a few roles and swapped genders and that is, literally, about it.

6/10. Like I said, not all bad. Just not 95% RT good. It's an average, dumb, over produced marketing movie. If you have grown tired of the Marvel films you will see a similar pattern here. Safe, easy, crowd pleasing. Ultimately fun and good escapism but NOTHING new and nothing that moves the series forward.

Hoping the next one can change that. Maybe this was just the transition film.

Thanks Luke..... A more reasoned critique of the film.... don't agree with everything but definitely a more reasoned critique. The problem with film criticism is that everyone can give an opinion. However, I disagree with the post modernist position that we must accept poor uninformed and unstudied opinion. And a lot of what is being tossed about is just that ..... I reiterate - as a piece of cinema the film is poor.... very poor. As entertainment it is watchable.... there is however good technical work within it.

 

[NOSA OBAYIUWANA]

My problem with it was that it felt like a studio backed fan film.... if I wanted that I could have kept my £8 and gone onto Youtube.

 

[Aaron McLane]

I thought one hour and forty min for 4 guys talking in a stagecoach was a bit too long.

 

[Craig Schober]

My problem with it was that it felt like a studio backed fan film.... if I wanted that I could have kept my £8 and gone onto Youtube.

Please reply with YouTube link for fan film that approximates this level.

I haven't seen the film yet to know exactly what it is going to be like- a popcorn film that's entertaining and a little corny by design. Same as the original trilogy.

And the same goes for all the negative reviews out there. Sounds like film student talk to me. If you miss the point of a movie your opinion means much less no matter how smart you sound.

Save your reviews for this guy:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky9-eIlHzAE

 

[sam windell]

The nostalgic moments are definitely there, but I couldn't agree more with the critique of it being a rehash of A New Hope. It was like it tried so hard to be the old Star Wars that it missed opportunities within the film to bring a new star wars frontier to the table to amp it up to level of hype it received.

 

[Luke Neumann]

I haven't seen the film yet...If you miss the point of a movie your opinion means much less no matter how smart you sound.

Where does that put the opinion of someone that hasn't seen the film yet?

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

I really dislike watching stereoscopic 3d, but this one was particular bad. Maby it was the cinema that had something off. The first planet that you se in the start had ghosting, aswell as alot of other objects in the film. It took me out of the story a few times. Alot of scenes looked unsharp. Again this is most likely this particular cinemas fault. Either some projektor settings were off or something. Also i wish the shut it in 48fps smooth out some shots.

Storywise,
Story wise it felt repeated but still entertaining. Was fun to se the old crew. Good actors.
Why does a scrap collector know how to fly space chips of "all" sizes.
Repair a space chip that is tolly new for you.
I did not like that she all the sudden became a self learned jedi.
Universe felt very small (geographicly)
I would like to have deeper introduction of why fin did Change side.
Luke lazer sword talks to frey...like magic.

 

[Bob Gundu]

Just finished watching it. I felt nostalgia was getting in the way of moving this film to somewhere new. Han and Leia were the weakest actors ironically. Actually Domhnall Gleeson as General Hux was a bit laughable. No gravity to him. Really didn't care for Supreme Leader Snoke either. Getting R2 and C-3PO back also felt forced.

Stuff I liked.
Ray and Fin
Poe and BB-8
Editing and camera

 

[Stacey Spears]

Does any other franchise have such high expectations? I am not sure they can ever realistically be met. I went in with tempered expectations and it met my expectations. I guess I am disappointed that it only met them.

Not sure if it is because this is the first in a new trilogy or if it is typical JJ mysteries, but I felt there were too many unanswered questions. I know as much after seeing the movie as I did before seeing it in terms of Snoke and the Knights of Ren. I thought Fin was over the top. Not sure if that is the actor or the character. Also felt that Fin and Rey were too good at using a light saber compared to Kylo, who has had actual Jedi training. How did Rey know she could use mind control?

I thought BB-8 and Chewy were the best parts of the movie. I liked Rey a lot as well. I felt no emotion or sense of loss when people died. I feel like I probably should have cared more, but did not.

When Kylo took off his helmet, I thought I was watching Andy Samberg.

I got enjoyment out of the movie, but not enough to see it a second time unless it were showing in HDR near me, I would see it again just for that.

Reading this thread, and others, I think we are all being overly critical on something that was not meant to be that complex.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Does any other franchise have such high expectations? I am not sure they can ever realistically be met. I went in with tempered expectations and it met my expectations. I guess I am disappointed that it only met them.

Not sure if it is because this is the first in a new trilogy or if it is typical JJ mysteries, but I felt there were too many unanswered questions. I know as much after seeing the movie as I did before seeing it in terms of Snoke and the Knights of Ren. I thought Fin was over the top. Not sure if that is the actor or the character. Also felt that Fin and Rey were too good at using a light saber compared to Kylo, who has had actual Jedi training. How did Rey know she could use mind control?

I thought BB-8 and Chewy were the best parts of the movie. I liked Rey a lot as well. I felt no emotion or sense of loss when people died. I feel like I probably should have cared more, but did not.

When Kylo took off his helmet, I thought I was watching Andy Samberg.

I got enjoyment out of the movie, but not enough to see it a second time unless it were showing in HDR near me, I would see it again just for that.

Reading this thread, and others, I think we are all being overly critical on something that was not meant to be that complex.

Because it's a first in a series of new stories, I'm glad it didn't reveal much. This movie is a great setup for the rest of the story. We now know all the players (characters) and the drama behind them. If they said to much in this movie it won't be a surprise in episode VIII and so on. As for meeting the expectations, I mean... for a movie this hyped it did pretty well to live up to that hype. Having this unrealistic expectations to be even met half way is a good thing, but I think it did more than that. How many over hyped movies has ever been a good experience when seeing them? This is among the very very few.

 

[Michael Ou]

I was deeply affected when Chewy got shot!

 

[Bob Gundu]

Too bad the death of Han was nothing compared to him being in carbonite in Empire.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

This is the spioler version of my thoughts from the other thread. I'm splitting it between two posts though with some extra interesting stuff.

I thought I would dislike the male lead, but he worked well.

There is a lot about this film. Firstly I saw a lot of motifs. I can't remember a lot of them due to my condition, but Hunger Games/Mocking Jay was one, even a teenage mutant ninja turtle turns up. Appears like Snow survived his execution somewhat scared and is here as Snoke with some other Hunger Games looking characters.

I didn't see the very beginning (lots wrong) and in the rush I didn't get a good look at what looked like sone clunky USB key. Good to see they can apparently last that long.

The guy the pilot was talking to at the beggining looked like our Jedi Master from the first film. Actually, thete are a lot of flashes of old SW, and a lot of things look like stuff from previous films.

The girl, is she the girl on the paddle board in the RACQ commercial?

The enemy seem very adept at shooting small things with fighters but not a whole freighter like the Mellenium Falcon standing still. I dont know what psychological condition this is, but it probably exists, maybe it is a side effect of their conditioning. So psychologically defficent enemies, explains a lot.

Lots of old tech there, but have you seen the warp drive section in Startrek, which old factory did they get that from.

Apparently powered cabled socket drivers, like we have today, are still used to fix rebel fighters. Interesting that we still have revels after the empire was defeated. They also have not seemed to change fashions etc either, unlike in the prequels. A lot of things should he different, not the same. Storm troopers etc, could be replaced.

Scale. The old deathstar and the new planet one are compared, but the new one should be a lot bigger for that gravity, atmosphere and forests. The second death star was bigger too, and I will assume that is the one being compared. However, landing on the new death planet and going from place to place on it, shown on the map at the rebel base, reveals it is a lot smaller than even the small death star. But all so cool (though fitting a star into it requires such technology that could be used as a weapon, as not to need a star anyway. Now, getting a stars energy with all layers mixed up inside out of something like a death planet being blown up would usually result in an explosion, rather than the the original star. This is very similar to a ship in some of my own science fiction stories to destroy planets and star systems (depends on the amount of energy stored and how it is applied), but I have a hope of getting the science right and it is a lot smaller (think similar to a zpm, which is not my source). Years ago they did an estimate that you could fit all the matter in the universe into a thimbleful full of volume. Digest that. So, we can throw science out here. They keep making these things in movies when they could make a handheld device simply that could do the same thing.

An interesting thing about the death planet, how much effort and time would that take, and even money in that universe. You would think somebody would say: hey, on our scanners, or telescopes, or security probe, or informants, reveals a massive big ditch with a big gun on that planet.

The faster than light death rays are seen side on in realtime from our hero's planet's surface, when there should he minutes delay and different timing between the destinations as they are further away from the observers on the planet. I have tried to figure out how to do this in the past.

One of the beaded fighter pilots in the attack on the death planet looks like an older version of one of the pilots in the original series. Is this the same actor?

All we know about Jedi training is thrown out the window. The make lead manages to fight and land one on the villain, and the female lead us an instant sort of hit. I suspect that the explanation maybe that Luke or somebody is guiding them by the force. Notice that Han Solo displays force like ability deliberately in one shot.

It turns out somebody must have given them a trans trans trans warp drive up grade by the end of the film, it took them like 30 seconds to travel the galaxy rather than days to travel hyperspace.

There is so many other things I have forgotten.

-------

The beginning of the film lacks density, but it picks up good density eventually. The old actors instantly have density as they are nuanced in their emotions and reactions. Something that has to be directed. The end of the film shows that as well. The youngsters seem like cutouts compared to the older experienced actors. The fine, small movement, humanity and expression of the characters are not there as much in the younger actors. It is replaced with a lot of stress, energy and action. Watching DW (Doctor Who) we see a lot of this these days but with experienced nuanced actors. It is a fashion I don't like which is why the current doctor is the best of the new series, the second best being the last doctor, movement per excellence. It was a cruel use of him in the latest terminator movie. The use of Chris Barrie, was it, in Tomb Raider as a stiff Butler was just a crying shame, one of the great unknown comedy actors of the time. However, these nuances will add a layer to the actors and the movie, but they come from learning the emotional acting, not motifs of nuances

There is significant use of motifs over density here. This is not strong imagination. Along these lines, action, energy, tension, quirky humor are also used. St is a simple universe, SW is a complex nuanced universe. I know that original startrek put a lot of effort into nuancing their universe by the end, becoming more than an simple action ride. But Startrek the action movies can.be a lot simpler, as it is a ship flying around a mission episode that does not require as much complexity. SW is multiple layered and nuanced spread of races and locations. Unfortunately they have in the past been thrown in for effect at times, but bringing them to life is the art. 90% more could have been done. This is a sign of the times though, the running man or women movies from plot puont to plot point, action to action. Fortunately this film was a lot more then that.

Some parts are well and truely dense and there is plenty of solid action with some really impressive bits. The action and the sword play where a bit unrealistic as usual, as well as space travel. Though I would give that girl a job as a pilot. Finally somebody in SW that can really fly.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Family Ties

Family Ties

OK, this is going to be controversial, but first something I forgot in the last post.

Han Solo Lives:

The touching father son moment in the film where Han gets killed. Too contrived, artificial and too soon. Second or third film maybe, but maybe that is what George Lucas determined when he came up with the 9 episodes in the early/mid 70's.

But, is Han Solo really dead. He could have been caught up in a deflector/anti gravity feild, or saftey tractor beam, hey that walk way didn't have any railings, and somebody picked him up and saved him. Like: "Hey we found this down the main shoot. What ya want to do with him boss?" sort of thing.

The progenitor:

Smugglers like Han Solo have some swagger in SW and ability with getting out of scrapes, talking themselves out of trouble, and using weapons. Maybe the swagger brigade are tapped into the force but are untrained. Remember Han Solo was deliberately display force like ability with a blind side shot in the film.

Anakin's father was an unknown space trader. Presumably Hans Solo's father was a space trader.
Maybe they are the same person.
Think of it this way, he is a bit older then Leia. Hopefully they are just cousines.
Original theory I've been wanting to share on Starwars forums. Just to see their reaction.

The Girl:

Maybe she is also descended from the progenitor. Maybe she is secretly Luke's daughter.

The Guy:

Maybe he is descended from Han's friend in The Empire Strikes back. Maybe they are also descended from the progenitor.

The Force:

Maybe the reason the girl can use the force without training, and the guy also handle a light sabre, is that Luke or somebody, is remotely guiding them through the force. The guy not firing and obviouse force is overlooked by the villian also. Now according to SW law, the darkside can cloud things. Maybe somebody on the light side, like Luke, is clouding the villians mind. One is passive clouding, the other active clouding (mind control).

The Storm Trooper Captain:

There is something about this character. They are taking as kids not knowing where they are from. Maybe they are taken into the same pack as their relatives. Maybe the guy and the the captain are related. I have got a feeling we will see her again. But, I don't know why she would lower the shields on the death planet so simply a d conveniently, as it would lead to her death in anycase. Maybe she just wanted to do a good thing.

Progenitor whereabouts:

Maybe the progenitor is frozen and is awakened and brought into the series.

Who is the Progenitor:

Captain Dylan Hunt. Who had one parent an eternal being of power, has walked the ages for the last million years in a Galaxy far far away and traveled in time to the SW galaxy. Sowing his seed, possibly sharing his understanding of the force before giving up.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

The new droid, when it hears it's master is dead, the noise it makes and the way it puts its head down, is like Jar Jar Binks.

So, is Jar Jar dead and transfered into this droid, a fitting end (more things I hate about SW).

 

[Marc Wielage]

I thought BB-8 and Chewy were the best parts of the movie. I liked Rey a lot as well. I felt no emotion or sense of loss when people died. I feel like I probably should have cared more, but did not.

I totally agree with you, Stacey. I think this is a completely legit criticism of the film -- everybody seemed to get over the one major dead character's loss a little too easy.

When Kylo took off his helmet, I thought I was watching Andy Samberg.

No... it's Snape from Harry Potter...

 

[Samir Patel]

Just saw it. It was amazing. Lets not forget it's a movie. I found myself analyzing the image and cinematography at the start but before long I just was wrapped up in the story and I walked away entertained.