STAR WARS: The Thread of Spoilers

[Christoffer Glans]

There's one thread that's dedicated to a spoiler free discussion, so I think there should be one dedicated to those who've seen it :smiley:

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I thought it was really good, not just for Star Wars but for a film like any other. Good writing, directing and especially acting. There's real moments, character moments which were rare or ridiculous in previous Star Wars movies. I really had a good time with this movie, the kind of feeling when going to the theatre, that special feeling that isn't very common anymore. There's a few movies that I can say that made me smile as a cinematic experience. Last time was Interstellar which "felt" like a cinema experience. But this has more to it then that.

I really like how they marketed Finn as being a Jedi, to completely turn it and gave that journey to Rey. It's nice to see a woman portray a main Jedi character and the next movie will likely be close to Empire strikes back with Luke training Rey as Yoda trained him. I thought it was a bit lame to have "another death star" in this one as well. I mean, what will they do next? A death star galaxy? But what I liked the most is that Kylo Ren isn't just a random bad dude, instead he has a real conflict within him, he is in the middle of the dark and light side and therefor you hate him and love him. I think his journey will be one of the most interesting character arcs in the Star Wars saga.

 

[Michael Tiemann]

My favorite "twist" is the way they quoted from earlier movies. It's become quite cliche in movies these days to set up a phrase that means something at the beginning, plow through a lot of plot, and then repeat the phrase, either to emphasize the original truth, show how the truth has changed, or Just Because The Writer Decided To Make Matching Bookends For The Film. What I liked was they way they could reach into the cannon and repeat phrases, not as if they were merely quoting, but because the truth of the human conditional remains relatively constant, and the lines that were true in Episode IV, V, and VI are just as likely to be true in episode VII. I was so glad that the script writing (not only plot and characterization) was as good as the set design and the special effects.

My one complaint: I thought the swordplay could have been better. That aside...BRAVO!

 

[Christoffer Glans]

My one complaint: I thought the swordplay could have been better. That aside...BRAVO!

I thought it was good, it's not meant to be fully completed Jedi/Siths battle, they were both not skilled enough yet. There will come a real lightsaber final in this trilogy, guaranteed. What I liked was that this time around the lightsabers really felt like they hurt, they weren't just slicing through things.

 

[Trevor Emmerson]

No Darth Jar Jar was a bit of a disappointment for me haha, that was one convincing reddit theory. Andy Serkis as plus size Gollum/Snoke was nowhere near as mind blowing.

I though the casting was brilliant, all the new characters are wins including BB-8. Personally I find red herring stunts they did with Fin throughout the trailers a bit too cute. Acting was pretty good especially Harrison Ford winding back the clock, except I got the distinct impression Leia was focusing more on holding her gut in than delivering her lines. Carrie Fisher did say she didn't quite make it to the studio mandated goal weight, can you imagine "That was great Carrie but lets go one more take, think skinnier" "F**k you JJ" ahah.

Maz Kanata's palace felt a little bit too much like a set, those rocks were just really fake looking to me. If the goal was going back to film and practicals to avoid the Peter Jackson aesthetic they fell a bit short there. Jakku and Starkiller base were great though. Luke's hideaway looked a bit too Irish Tourism Board than mysterious locale in the unmapped outer rim.

Didn't feel like there was much consistency with the earlier films regarding the force. Kylo Ren's force abilities took it to another level which was very cool but then having Rey match and beat him in nearly all their confrontations was a bit silly and farcical if we're to believe she's never even heard of the force, quick learner. That vision sequence of Rey's to justify some of the shots in the trailers was also quite unsatisfying, totally robbed of the Luke and R2 "the force is strong in my family" speech and whatever was going down with the Knights of Ren in the mud and rain. And repositioning the camera during the final battle between Kylo Ren, Fin and Rey so that the we only hear but don't see the hero shot from the trailers with the new lightsaber sparking up, almost as unforgivable as Jar Jar. I may never get over it. Why would they do that? Argh.

Thats the bad, all in all it was pretty good though I guess.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Didn't feel like there was much consistency with the earlier films regarding the force. Kylo Ren's force abilities took it to another level which was very cool but then having Rey match and beat him in nearly all their confrontations was a bit silly and farcical if we're to believe she's never even heard of the force, quick learner. That vision sequence of Rey's to justify some of the shots in the trailers was also quite unsatisfying, totally robbed of the Luke and R2 "the force is strong in my family" speech and whatever was going down with the Knights of Ren in the mud and rain. And repositioning the camera during the final battle between Kylo Ren, Fin and Rey so that the we only hear but don't see the hero shot from the trailers with the new lightsaber sparking up, almost as unforgivable as Jar Jar. I may never get over it. Why would they do that? Argh.

Thats the bad, all in all it was pretty good though I guess.

I think people missed why she could use the force so early without training. She has always fantasized about the old legends. See how she puts on the rebel helm when eating lunch? She have "lived" with the old legends, she might have "played" like she had the force and so on. But only when she faced the truth that she really might be strong with the force does she focus for real on it. She already knows some things about what the Jedi could do, that's why she knows that they could do mind control. And the visions were also probably boosting her abilities.
I don't think that it was lame to have those sequences in the trailer. They were good images for a trailer (speaking as a trailer producer myself). They also showed what happened with Kylo Ren, when he cut down all the Jedi apprentices Luke was training. It's also quite safe to say that when Luke saw that Kylo killed everyone, he fled to a safe place and made it possible for a "strong one" to find him. He didn't flee, he made sure that someone that was strong with the force could find him and that is probably why R2D2 "woke up" when he did, Rey was ready. Because Luke was the last of the Jedi, he wanted to make sure that he didn't take the risk of loosing his life until there was someone who he could pass the torch to. Luke might even die off in the next movie when Rey might be powerful enough to stand on her own.

 

[NOSA OBAYIUWANA]

Seen it .... terrible film

1. The film's narrative was unoriginal and a rehash (remix) of several other Star Wars films
2. The casting was particularly bad - C Fisher / Harrison Ford completely break the illusion. There is nostalgia but no performance
3. Some of the lines were cringe worthy..... very very bad writing.
4. Using C.G animation for the "emperor" character removes any depth or complexity that character could have had.
5. All the action sequences were pretty much copies. It was really disappointing.

All the hype, promotion and uncritical bloggers will not save this film as being regarded in a few years time as one of the worst franchise sequels in history.

This was lazy/committee filmmaking.... a real disservice to Hollywood and the efforts of so many technical people who did do a good job.

 

[Robino_J]

I liked it a lot even with its flaws. I have to see it again.

What I liked:

- The new cast is truly amazing. (Rey, Poe, Finn and Ren)
- It feels like the Star Wars world.
- The reference cameos and "wink wink" to the original trilogy. (destroyed and burned Spaceships and At Ats, stop motion chess board anyone
- Scriptwriting was tight and the movie moved a long nicely without being dumb.
- The film looks outstanding. (not another film vs digital debate but it does make a big difference...)

What I didn't like:

- That scene in the middle when we meet solo. The whole CGI creature walloping and eating up the bad guys felt unnecessary to me. CGI cartoony nightmare.
- The new orange "Yoda" type wisdom character. CGI ruined this character for me. As good as it looks and moves it lacks some major soul.
- That's going to sound crazy and I have to see the movie again but the old cast (Solo and Leia) had some weird acting moments, I didn't feel their acting was great. They both felt a little bit un-inspired and bored.
- The story was really a mashup of stories from the original trilogy - Would have been nice to be a little bit more creative. No deathstars for the next ones please!

Reading my negative points you would think I didn't like the movie but no! I loved it. I couldn't stop smiling for the entire first quarter. I really enjoyed it and will see it again. I give this movie a 7.5 /10

 

[Nathan DuMoulin]

To recap the story:

- Rebels puts important plans in a droid
- Empire chases droid through desert
- Droid encounters our new protagonist
- Rebels save protagonist
- Empire destroys planet with laser beam from giant death star
- Rebels attack single point of weakness on death star
- Protagonist fights dark helmeted villain
- Death star explodes
- Protagonist goes to seek guidance from old Jedi on secluded planet

Sound familiar? This wasn't a sequel, it was a remake.

That being said, I very much enjoyed it. I was just horribly disappointed in the lack of originality.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Seen it .... terrible film

1. The film's narrative was unoriginal and a rehash (remix) of several other Star Wars films
2. The casting was particularly bad - C Fisher / Harrison Ford completely break the illusion. There is nostalgia but no performance
3. Some of the lines were cringe worthy..... very very bad writing.
4. Using C.G animation for the "emperor" character removes any depth or complexity that character could have had.
5. All the action sequences were pretty much copies. It was really disappointing.

All the hype, promotion and uncritical bloggers will not save this film as being regarded in a few years time as one of the worst franchise sequels in history.

This was lazy/committee filmmaking.... a real disservice to Hollywood and the efforts of so many technical people who did do a good job.

I agree that there were a little too many things that's copied or noded twords the original trilogy, but I didn't find it that bad. The problem with the prequels were that they totally pissed on everything the old trilogy had, this was really made for the fans and it shows, in a good way. I didn't find the acting bad, other than Carry Fisher feeling a bit "lost" with the acting. Though I didn't find Harrison Fords performance bad, it was good. Just because a character is CGI shouldn't take away the complexity of the character from a story point of view, maybe take you out of the illusion, but it does not take away who and what the character is to the story, that's just illogical.

Were you really thinking the action sequences were copied? How the hell would you do action? At least here it's not the fucked up documentary Bourne-style action, but easy to follow. The one-take of Finn in the foreground and Poe in the background was especially creative, haven't seen that one before, have you? Where? So no, I don't think the action was bad at all either.

To say that this is lazy filmmaking is just ridiculous and arrogant in my opinion. You might not like it, but lazy? Are you seriously saying this film is lazy filmmaking? Well, many others don't agree.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_vii_the_force_awakens/

That being said, I very much enjoyed it. I was just horribly disappointed in the lack of originality.

Wasn't it intentional though? They said they made it for the fans. I'm a big fan and I'm quite happy that there were similarities. I believe though that this is just the start, it was a way to bring new audiences in together with the fans. The story will continue in other directions.

Also, the writing of Kylo Ren is very good in my opinion; they made the very essence of the struggle between the light and dark side apparent within one character. Very intriguing in what direction they will go with his story.

 

[Robino_J]

Just because a character is CGI shouldn't take away the complexity of the character from a story point of view, maybe take you out of the illusion, but it does not take away who and what the character is to the story, that's just illogical.

Are you saying that if they did a very realistic CGI version of this character looking like "Mr Hanky" from South park that you could suspend your disbelief and still enjoy the movie? Even if CGI Mr Hanky was speaking the same exact words?

 

[Nathan DuMoulin]

That's going to sound crazy and I have to see the movie again but the old cast (Solo and Leia) had some weird acting moments, I didn't feel their acting was great. They both felt a little bit un-inspired and bored.

Han's character has always been sarcastic, withdrawn, and defensive. In Ep-V when Leia says "I love you", he replies "I know" in true Han fashion. Meanwhile in this movie he was vulnerable and sentimental. It's not that his scenes were poorly performed, but rather poorly written.

Wasn't it intentional though? They said they made it for the fans. I'm a big fan and I'm quite happy that there were similarities. I believe though that this is just the start, it was a way to bring new audiences in together with the fans. The story will continue in other directions.

Also, the writing of Kylo Ren is very good in my opinion; they made the very essence of the struggle between the light and dark side apparent within one character. Very intriguing in what direction they will go with his story.

I can understand having some semblance to the originals, but to the extent that it's nearly a remake? I can't speak for other fans, but one of the appeals of the Star Wars franchise, is the sheer depth and possibilities offered by the source material. To just regurgitate the same thing all over again offers nothing more than momentary enjoyment.

That being said, I'll restate once again that I did indeed enjoy the movie. I was just very let down by the writing.

 

[Aaron McLane]

My favorite episode of BattleStar Galactica was when they went into light speed right into a planets atmosphere to get a jump on the Cylons...................

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Here's one spoiler.

 

[NOSA OBAYIUWANA]

ha ha ha

 

[NOSA OBAYIUWANA]

I agree that there were a little too many things that's copied or noded twords the original trilogy, but I didn't find it that bad. The problem with the prequels were that they totally pissed on everything the old trilogy had, this was really made for the fans and it shows, in a good way. I didn't find the acting bad, other than Carry Fisher feeling a bit "lost" with the acting. Though I didn't find Harrison Fords performance bad, it was good. Just because a character is CGI shouldn't take away the complexity of the character from a story point of view, maybe take you out of the illusion, but it does not take away who and what the character is to the story, that's just illogical.

Were you really thinking the action sequences were copied? How the hell would you do action? At least here it's not the fucked up documentary Bourne-style action, but easy to follow. The one-take of Finn in the foreground and Poe in the background was especially creative, haven't seen that one before, have you? Where? So no, I don't think the action was bad at all either.

To say that this is lazy filmmaking is just ridiculous and arrogant in my opinion. You might not like it, but lazy? Are you seriously saying this film is lazy filmmaking? Well, many others don't agree.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_vii_the_force_awakens/



Wasn't it intentional though? They said they made it for the fans. I'm a big fan and I'm quite happy that there were similarities. I believe though that this is just the start, it was a way to bring new audiences in together with the fans. The story will continue in other directions.

Also, the writing of Kylo Ren is very good in my opinion; they made the very essence of the struggle between the light and dark side apparent within one character. Very intriguing in what direction they will go with his story.

If the CGI character worked for you .... that's fine. If you think that was creative filmmaking ....yeepee for you. Posting a link to someone else's opinion counts for nothing.

I repeat... it was lazy filmmaking... the film was a tick box exercise... unchallenging and unable to progress the genre at all. If J J Abrams did a good job in your opinion ... that is probably why he gets away with this sort of generic thing.

Instead of personalising my criticisms look at all the elements... narrative, dialogue, casting, action scenes etc and comment on how any of these pushes the genre or does anything slightly original.

This was froth.... and it did not need to be.... Nolan managed to take Batman and do something original with it.

Because the original was the cinematic icon for a lot of people in their 30s and 40s now cannot make a poor rehash appeal to this current generation.

As more people see it the criticisms are growing.

 

[NOSA OBAYIUWANA]

Mass delusion through studio marketing will not turn stones to gems.... people maybe hypnotised for a short period because of nostalgia and fancy campaigns but the quality (or lack of) of the film always becomes apparent in the long run.

People want to love this film.... they have been waiting for this film..... they believed that Abrams could deliver something that could rekindle the Star Wars universe.... unfortunately this is not it.

It is a disservice to those fans who have waited for so long..... and to a saga in desperate need of reinvention.

 

[Robert Andriessen]

Did anyone think a lot of emotional scenes of medium and closeup of the faces were out of focus? It also had a feel of an enlarged image. Saw this on a Dolby cinema screen in 2d of course.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Are you saying that if they did a very realistic CGI version of this character looking like "Mr Hanky" from South park that you could suspend your disbelief and still enjoy the movie? Even if CGI Mr Hanky was speaking the same exact words?

I think people have their own wants about how a character should to look and cannot accept it when it doesn't look like they wanted it to. I cannot see the connection to how Mr Hanky looks, but I agree the CGI should have looked better, or wasn't really needed for that character. But to dismiss a character either because the CGI wasn't good enough or because he doesn't look like you wanted is far from dismissing his importance in the story. I did not think he looked bad in a pure art direction point of view. People didn't hate JarJar because the characters CGI looked bad... he was just the worst fucking character ever. When it comes to Star Wars, people seem to have their own art direction in their head and it need to look like that otherwise it's crap. This movie is far from crap and it's the first real Star Wars experience I had since Return of the Jedi. That people go so far as to say that it's "lazy filmmaking" is astoundingly ridiculous in my opinion. If comparing this movie to other big adventure movies in modern times, without caring about it being a Star Wars movie, it's still a really good adventure movie. It far surpasses most modern adventure-movies and is a real cinematic experience.

Nowadays everyone's a critic and seems to hate everything that comes out. If this movie came out instead of the Episode I back in 1999, I don't think many would complain about it as much as people do now. I'm really surprised at how much criticism people hold against almost any movie today. This puts us filmmakers in an impossible position where we will never be able to deliver good stories because everyone will always criticize it to death.

Recognizing when something really is good seems to be rare. It's much easier to just complain about anything. It also seems hard for people to really say they liked something. I LOVED this movie, I'm not sure many would dare to say the same. :tongue_smilie:

Han's character has always been sarcastic, withdrawn, and defensive. In Ep-V when Leia says "I love you", he replies "I know" in true Han fashion. Meanwhile in this movie he was vulnerable and sentimental. It's not that his scenes were poorly performed, but rather poorly written.

How can it be poorly written? Characters evolve in stories, they aren't set in stone. If you have traits that a character never goes beyond, they are stereotypes and flat. Han had in my opinion a good balance between the old Han and the more thoughtful, responsible and caring Han that he became over the course of the original trilogy. People need to let go of how they view characters as needing to be what they want or remember. They DID balance Han to make him enough different to show that he is 30 years older, but keep some of the traits the character has. If he were completely the same it would have been truly awful.

I can understand having some semblance to the originals, but to the extent that it's nearly a remake? I can't speak for other fans, but one of the appeals of the Star Wars franchise, is the sheer depth and possibilities offered by the source material. To just regurgitate the same thing all over again offers nothing more than momentary enjoyment.

That being said, I'll restate once again that I did indeed enjoy the movie. I was just very let down by the writing.

And I thought the writing was good. Dialogue with subtext, most plot points were told without dialogue, the characters were fleshed out real people instead of flat stereotypes. I'm not seeing what was bad about the writing really. Main problem with sci-fi and fantasy is making characters feel like real people, which they did in this movie. I agree that the "mega death star" was a bit over the top, but I also recognize what they try to do here. They want to enforce those feelings people had when watching the first movie by connecting to a lot of the things we remember. It's a way of bringing people into the story once again. This was really made by fans for fans, but I hope they now stretch out the story into new ways.

What people seem to fail to understand about this is that this is the FIRST of many many stories and films. If they do the TV-series, we will have "Rogue One", "Episode VIII", "Hans Solo", "Episode IX" and a TV-series of around 100 episodes.
I mean, there's A LOT more coming so if you are feeling that they could have expanded the story into other parts of the galaxy, they will do it and probably even too much. Don't worry, there won't be a stone left unturned or a mystery left when Disney is finished with Star Wars I'm afraid.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Mass delusion through studio marketing will not turn stones to gems.... people maybe hypnotised for a short period because of nostalgia and fancy campaigns but the quality (or lack of) of the film always becomes apparent in the long run.

People want to love this film.... they have been waiting for this film..... they believed that Abrams could deliver something that could rekindle the Star Wars universe.... unfortunately this is not it.

It is a disservice to those fans who have waited for so long..... and to a saga in desperate need of reinvention.

You are the only one I hear that speaks like this so... yeah, you are quite alone and it's not a common opinion I hear around me. You fail to see that this is part one of.... well forever. The story was meant to bring everything in once more so it can continue in new directions. There will be hundreds of stories that will continue the saga and Disney said so themselves. To judge an entirely new generation of stories in the Star Wars saga based on the first movie is a bit narrow minded in my view.

...and George Lucas did really "reinvent" a lot in the Star Wars prequel and it backfired to shit. Star Wars fans want to feel they are in the same universe as the old trilogy, which they do in this movie. I've heard from so many fans that they loved this and critics love it. This isn't the Prometheus of Star Wars, that was the prequel. This IS what fans have been waiting for. Your opinion is the only one I've heard about Abrams failing to deliver... really... the only one. So I respect that you don't like it, but the general idea isn't that he failed, it's that he succeeded by far. I'm sorry, but that's what everyone seems to say globally.