STAGE 2: KEEP your RED ONE and get EPIC-X Stage 2 package

[Stephen Williams]

No one is actually selling their R1's right now are they?

I thought they were just "leasing" them out until they officially receive their Epics then they will sale them officially with name trades and everything.

Maybe I misunderstood what they were doing.

Thats what they did, they needed to keep their Red One.

 

[George Butterfield]

As an historical note, Stage 2 was an afterthought after many people stated that they wanted to keep their R1's. They wanted the EPIC but didn't want to get rid of their R1's. Jim then came up with the very thoughtful and generous and costly, to RED, Stage 2.

 

[Bob Moore]

You would have to prove that RED said these people would still be eligible for the "Stage 2 upgrade". Do you have an example of such a statement from RED?

The following thread implies that a sale would occur prior to delivery and seems to have been given more than tacit approval....

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?62440-Transferring-RED-epic-stage-2-....&highlight=ownership

Bob

 

[keith morton]

V O L C A N O By STORZ & BICKEL

 

[Antonio Forjaz]

what I actually think Jim and Jarred are saying is that who ever has actually sold their RED One that was executed, will loose the privilege of some kind of great up-grade to the RED One because they no longer own it. Something like the MX-upgrade program, but only for Stage 2's or may be at a great price for stage 2's....make the RED One's more like an EPIC....like 5K....HDRx....etc....that for me would be a great deal, and a very bad deal for those that no longer have their cameras....The more I read the original post Jarred wrote, the more it feels like that...something we will gain and something those who have sold theirs will regret...but I might be totally wrong....only Jim and Jarred and a few others really know...let's all wait and see, I am sure sooner than later they will let us know

both RED one MX and EPIC have the same sensor right? so, it must be possible, for a price, to change the actual computer in the RED and make it like a BIG EPIC...I would do that up-grade...I would then have 2 very compatible and similar cameras...one small and light and one big and heavy...but both with the same picture

who else would go for an up-grade program like this? I think many...most...and those that sold their's will have lost out on a great deal

or this has to do with something about Dragon...and who will be eligible early???

 

[Jeremy Neish]

For all of you guys here that have posted that you have kept your camera and have stated various states of affection for your R1... We will never forget. We love you guys. For those of you like Andrew that have kept your camera and plan to sell it afterwards for various reasons... you are good in our books. But those of you that have sold off your camera and somehow think that a loophole makes everything o.k... Re-read Jim's signature.

Oh, we have lots of affection for our R1... I didn't even remember seeing that clause in our Stage 2 contract, but we NEVER even considered selling our double digit serial # R1... For me it was clear what Jim meant when he said KEEP your RED ONE. When he announced Stage 2, here is how I interpreted it in my head... "Here is a great deal for an Epic package AND as a gift to you, you can KEEP your RED ONE." It was clearly a gift to show his thanks for those of us that believed in RED back when it was a "scam", the mere thought of selling our RED ONE seemed like a slap in Jim's face.

Ever heard the term "re-gifter"? That's how I would feel if I sold my RED ONE. It's a gift from RED and I intend to treasure it and continue using it, a lot!

Jeremy
Anxiously awaiting an my Epic email... gotta be any minute now.

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

I don't see why Ketch keeps having his name mentioned.

This thread is about people who executed Stage 2, then sold their RED ONE outright.

What Ketch has been doing, if I understand it, is putting people who want an EPIC-X early in touch with people in Stage 2 who want to sell their *EPIC-X* after it's *delivered*.

Nothing to do with selling their RED ONE.

Now to me that seems slightly against the spirit of Stage 2; to reward a loyal customer with a discounted EPIC - which they promptly turn round and sell. But it doesn't seem to be against the letter of Stage 2 in any way that I can see.

Am I missing something here?

Once again, I have no horse in this race and have no axe to grind.

Mike

 

[keith morton]

What if a camera is out on a long term rental?

 

[Bastiaan Maat]

what I actually think Jim and Jarred are saying is that who ever has actually sold their RED One that was executed, will loose the privilege of some kind of great up-grade to the RED One because they no longer own it. Something like the MX-upgrade program, but only for Stage 2's or may be at a great price for stage 2's....make the RED One's more like an EPIC....like 5K....HDRx....etc....that for me would be a great deal, and a very bad deal for those that no longer have their cameras....The more I read the original post Jarred wrote, the more it feels like that...something we will gain and something those who have sold theirs will regret...but I might be totally wrong....only Jim and Jarred and a few others really know...let's all wait and see, I am sure sooner than later they will let us know

You might be on to something, would be a terrible shame to let the "old" Red 1 go if it might be in any way possible to update it to modern Red standards.

 

[George Butterfield]

The following thread implies that a sale would occur prior to delivery and seems to have been given more than tacit approval....

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?62440-Transferring-RED-epic-stage-2-....&highlight=ownership

Bob

Bob, come on, do you understand English? That thread has absolutely nothing to do with the issue discussed in this thread. The OP is talking about the EPIC transfer of ownership. Most of the replies relate to the OP. There is also one obscure reply from someone who doesn't understand the OP.

 

[Paul S.]

I would expect Jim & Co, being the kind of people they are, to be considering some kind of incentive/prize/benefit that was unanounced and only available for the pople who followed the spirit of the agreement. This would be an incentive, and certainly couldn't be considered as penalization on anyone.

I think that's the most likely scenario, given the complexity of the situation. My bets would be that if you were stage 2 and still have your R1 when Red Dragon is ready to be applied, you get priority boarding. All others wait until later, no special treatment for any class.

 

[RayFrisby]

My 2 Cents

I have no vested interest in the outcome of this situation, as I do not own a Red One but hope to own an Epic. Nor do I have any personal dealings with any of those contributing to this thread.

It is clear from the Red agreement what people signed up for.

It seems however that some people have skirted or bent these rules for whatever reason/s.

Whatever the reason/s (or what people feel they were led to believe) the reality is this could damage the community and create adverse publicity if not sorted out.


Depending on the number of people who have signed up for Stage 2. I would suggest the following:


1... Close this thread and ask all owners who have undertaken a sell to own, or other sale to buy option to contact them.

(All stage 2 customers should have their serial numbers and place in line. Contact them and ask the situation)

2... For those who come clean, come to some arrangement with them or else inform them they broke their agreement and remove them for Stage 2.

3... Alternatively come to some agreement with them subject to a NDA

4....For those who do not comply with this cancel their place on Stage 2

My 2 Cents

 

[Stephen Williams]

What if a camera is out on a long term rental?

If it returns to the owner, then it's fine & any repairs will be paid for by the owner not the renter. There is a big and obvious difference.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I am here and I am reading every one's reply...

I thank you for the very kind words that some of you have posted in support of what I have done in the service of the community in Good faith, this is my family, and yes of course I'll bend back words for it!!


I am a Man of Integrity always have been, always will be... I TRUST RED, and am in contact with them, I will await that they make a decision on this,
trusting that they will do so in the best interest of the Company, and those involved, in my lease agreements.

As far as all other deals done by other brokers or direct, I have no control and no knowledge of how they were done, so I have no say.
I only know how our lease agreements were done, and again TRUST what ever decision RED will make.

I Love RED and I Love the community, I hope I have done al things right, and that the "Sketchy" leases were not those I made.


I will not reply or post anything else here, as it serves no purpose, I like some of the posts here, while I don't like others, no need to go too much on the RED side nor to go against,
RED will do what RED things is best, that is all, and those that I have signed agreements with are in contact with me directly, those that have not done so yet, those that might
not have it handy, can contact me via the email below, as I will not reply here, this is the only reply I will make here, thanks.


ketchrossi@ketchrossistudios.com

 

[Bob Moore]

Bob, come on, do you understand English? ...nothing to do with the issue discussed in this thread. The OP is talking about the EPIC transfer of ownership.

Yes I must be confused George as I thought it related to lease to own brokered positions for Stage II EPICs...and that is not part of what is being discussed?

Bob

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

To me this all seems ridiculous. Why in world does anyone care who sells their equipment. Isn't the fact they are getting this deal because they put down deposits?? it is amazing that people would put down deposits so far in advance and for RED to expect people to maintain ownership all this time, especially after reneging on delivery dates many times. I remember seeing posts with Ted from Red on Youtube estimating delivery of the EPIC in 2009. It still isn't really available to the public in any form other than a beta test camera "M" or in select delivery for Stages, and most parts you need to shoot are on backorder. Even the batteries, grip, etc aren't available in the store yet. I know because I am going to buy some accessories and wait for my EPIC purchase next year.

I think RED is an amazing forward thinking company and that is no doubt, but the only reason for most of the success it seems is because so many invest upfront blindly. What other company asks for pre-orders upfront so far in advance for a future possible product. This is investment money to get the cameras started and it looks like all Stages put towards this. These people minimized the risk of investing in a camera system like EPIC, so why try and bind them into keeping a camera system. They obviously are loyal customers if they still want to buy RED EPIC after all this time.

I think REd should let these people who came forward in the beginning and reason for success in the first place, sell their cameras if they wish, which seems the most appropriate thinking to me.

 

[Miltos Pilalitos]

To me this all seems ridiculous. Why in world does anyone care who sells their equipment. Isn't the fact they are getting this deal because they put down deposits??

No this is not why they are getting this deal. You have missed the point by far...

 

[George Butterfield]

Yes I must be confused George as I thought it related to lease to own brokered positions for Stage II Epics....and that is not part of what is being discussed?

Bob

What's being discussed is one and only one of the terms of the Stage 2 agreement. Namely, does the Stage 2 offer state that you have to keep your RED ONE until after you receive your EPIC in Stage 2. As Clinton would say it depends what the meaning of is, is. I guess (to some), it depends on what the meaning of "keep" is. Obviously those Stage 2 owners who keep their cameras and the spirit of the offer, do worse than those who interpret "keep" more creatively. Also those who chose Stage 3 because they interpreted keep one way also lose out to those in Stage 2 who use a different definition of "keep". At least RED can become a leaner. meaner fighting machine in the future, after all this Stage "dust" settles.

 

[Eric J Kosinski]

Gotcha!! I must have misunderstood then. I was under the impression Monetary Deposits were placed to be in specific stages? If this isn't the case, then my bad. (I'm new here) Either way, I wish I was on any one of these stages. I need my EPIC !!

 

[Erik Franzén]

To me this all seems ridiculous. Why in world does anyone care who sells their equipment. Isn't the fact they are getting this deal because they put down deposits?? it is amazing that people would put down deposits so far in advance and for RED to expect people to maintain ownership all this time, especially after reneging on delivery dates many times. I remember seeing posts with Ted from Red on Youtube estimating delivery of the EPIC in 2009. It still isn't really available to the public in any form other than a beta test camera "M" or in select delivery for Stages, and most parts you need to shoot are on backorder. Even the batteries, grip, etc aren't available in the store yet. I know because I am going to buy some accessories and wait for my EPIC purchase next year.

I think RED is an amazing forward thinking company and that is no doubt, but the only reason for most of the success it seems is because so many invest upfront blindly. What other company asks for pre-orders upfront so far in advance for a future possible product. This is investment money to get the cameras started and it looks like all Stages put towards this. These people minimized the risk of investing in a camera system like EPIC, so why try and bind them into keeping a camera system. They obviously are loyal customers if they still want to buy RED EPIC after all this time.

I think REd should let these people who came forward in the beginning and reason for success in the first place, sell their cameras if they wish, which seems the most appropriate thinking to me.

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth - and don't bend over backwards to find a loophole in the contract that allows you to bypass the initial goodwill intent behind it...
I don't know what RED's position on leasing is, as they have yet to clarify with a definitive statement, but they made it clear that you are not allowed to sell it and in return you get this generous, awe inspiring, package. How is that hard to grasp? There was no one holding a gun at anybody forcing them to sign those terms - you could have skipped right to stage 3 or 4 if you wanted to sell your RED One.

So, no. Selling it would be a big f-you at RED's stage offering...