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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Spielberg's latest...

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its really a sad moment for me so i must say..............spielberg can.......................kiss ass

oh there, i said it..........long live RED

fuck spielberg and steinberg too.
 
Can someone explain to me why RED needs to be universally acknowledged as "better than" anything at all?

*I* think its aesthetics are better than anything out there besides film, to which it's about equal; what makes it better than film *to me* is the price point. Well, okay, and the lack of grain for FX purposes.

I could really not care less what Spielberg shoots with, as long as he keeps shooting and makes the occasional good film (and even a bad Spielberg film is like bad sex or bad pizza -- it's still pretty good).

By the same token, I could not possibly care less if Spielberg or anyone else happened to think the RED was a piece of shit, because *I* don't think so. It's what I want in a camera, and that's all that matters. I don't need Spielberg's validation to know I'm making the best choice for my own career, and so I don't need to dismiss or disrespect a noteworthy and valuable filmmaker just because we have different approaches. Hopefully neither do any of you.

If RED is the best thing out there to help you make your films, then more power to you, and all of us. But I don't see why anyone ELSE has to feel that way, or why it must be accepted as some kind of universal standard, or that any other capture medium is somehow invalid.

A good filmmaker could make a good film with a camera phone, and a shitty filmmaker won't make anything but shitty films with all the REDs in the world.

I mean no offense to RED. I've got the R on my shelf next to my diplomas. I'm proud to be part of the first wave. But we know the RED is great, that the development is in good hands and that they care about our input. RED is real and it's what we hoped it would be. At this point, we should all really be a lot more concerned about what we'll be shooting, than what we're shooting with.
 
DorkmanScott said:
Can someone explain to me why RED needs to be universally acknowledged as "better than" anything at all?

*I* think its aesthetics are better than anything out there besides film, to which it's about equal; what makes it better than film *to me* is the price point. Well, okay, and the lack of grain for FX purposes.

I could really not care less what Spielberg shoots with, as long as he keeps shooting and makes the occasional good film (and even a bad Spielberg film is like bad sex or bad pizza -- it's still pretty good).

By the same token, I could not possibly care less if Spielberg or anyone else happened to think the RED was a piece of shit, because *I* don't think so. It's what I want in a camera, and that's all that matters. I don't need Spielberg's validation to know I'm making the best choice for my own career, and so I don't need to dismiss or disrespect a noteworthy and valuable filmmaker just because we have different approaches. Hopefully neither do any of you.

If RED is the best thing out there to help you make your films, then more power to you, and all of us. But I don't see why anyone ELSE has to feel that way, or why it must be accepted as some kind of universal standard, or that any other capture medium is somehow invalid.

A good filmmaker could make a good film with a camera phone, and a shitty filmmaker won't make anything but shitty films with all the REDs in the world.

I mean no offense to RED. I've got the R on my shelf next to my diplomas. I'm proud to be part of the first wave. But we know the RED is great, that the development is in good hands and that they care about our input. RED is real and it's what we hoped it would be. At this point, we should all really be a lot more concerned about what we'll be shooting, than what we're shooting with.
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Marvelous post.

killfilm said:
i'll bet you there are hundreds if not thousands of young male and female directors who are better than steven..the only reason we dont hear of them is because they aint got the hollywood connnections, the budget, equipment, crews, studios and distributors like he does..........thats about it
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Don't forget Spielberg also came from nothing... he wasn't BORN in the industry you know, he also worked his way up...
 
killfilm said:
why do we have to care if spielberg chooses film or not, who cares, if steven wore guess jeans, i suppose we all have to .......otherwise we aint cool. i'll bet you there are hundreds if not thousands of young male and female directors who are better than steven..the only reason we dont hear of them is because they aint got the hollywood connnections, the budget, equipment, crews, studios and distributors like he does..........thats about it
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... uh hu.... yeah... no.

I would be interested to know where all these thousands of better directors are because I'm going to change industries and become a talent agent.

Wherever they are... they obviously aren't actually making movies. But I'm sure they're certain they could make a really badass movie if they ever got around to it.
 
killfilm said:
its really a sad moment for me so i must say..............spielberg can.......................kiss ass

oh there, i said it..........long live RED

fuck spielberg and steinberg too.
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Man, don't be so harsh... Spielberg perfectly deserves what he's got and he's a brilliant filmmaker.

----

I think the main problem with film is that it's expen$ive.

And what about the prospect of film's prices going down? I mean the entire workflow - shooting, developing, telecine, etc.?

Wouldn't dirty little girls like RED One cause a similar phenomenon in the future?

I know, that silver is silver, but yet? :)

When demand for film declines... maybe prices will go down a certain degree.

Woudn't it be nice to have purely aesthetic choice on this, and not so much a budgetary one.

Say... I'll shoot this sequence RED and that - film, because .... blah-blah, etc.

What do ya think?

:gun:
 
karapetkov said:
And what about the prospect of film's prices going down? I mean the entire workflow - shooting, developing, telecine, etc.?

Wouldn't dirty little girls like RED One cause a similar phenomenon in the future?

I know, that silver is silver, but yet? :)

When demand for film declines... maybe prices will go down a certain degree.

What do ya think?
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I remember what happened to 8mm - as demand faltered, prices rose. This is normal for tail-end products and technologies - when demand sinks under a critical value, prices will have to increase or it will not be profitable to sell it any more.
 
mmost said:
No, the first post was correct. The vast majority of theatrically released motion pictures - especially studio pictures - are finished via digital intermediate these days. All of the film elements are created from the negative(s) generated by the DI process. Visual effects are integrated directly from files, and color corrected in continuity by the DI colorist.

Color calibration does yield a very, very accurate representation of a film print. If it didn't, DI as a process would not be acceptable and would not have become a rather standard way of working. Of course, such accuracy requires proper calibration, proper equipment, and proper environment. You're not going to get a particularly accurate print preview on a Macbook LCD (no matter what you do), but you are going to get an extremely accurate preview using a 2K DLP Cinema projector that is properly set up in a room that is designed for the purpose, and calibrated with a very tight color calibration pipeline. That environment is something that most of the larger VFX companies have set up, in part because it does indeed minimize the necessity of doing multiple film recordings.
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I can't see a vfx supervisor wanting the director or dp noticing flaws in the DI room, though I'm sure it's a common occurance.

While there are productions that have done no vfx review filmouts, there are productions still doing it.

My original remark was to the flippant remark that outputing vfx shots to film is stupid. I'm sure there are many vfx supervisors who would disagree.

I have sat through many vfx reviews in a screening room and they are always helpful in finding issues, much more so than just reviewing off any monitor.
 
it'll be sweet the day film will be found at garage sales and in antique dealerships.
 
Am I missing something? When did this forum turn so hateful? Saying "f**k so and so" because they choose to shoot film?

Is this still a forum for professionals or has it turned into something else?

Chris
 
Chris, it is not everyone nor the majority.

I may be wrong but I believe a Panavision truck ran over killfilm's dog. It was a bitter day that evidently has stretched into the night... :)
 
Andrew Benz said:
Chris, it is not everyone nor the majority.
)
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Point taken, but it does seem like the discussions of late turn sour fairly quickly.

And specific to Spielberg -- I'm not his biggest fan, but he certainly deserves much respect for his huge body of work. I don't see how one could dismiss that with a straight face.

Cheers,
Chris
 
KnockOutFilms said:
Point taken, but it does seem like the discussions of late turn sour fairly quickly.

And specific to Spielberg -- I'm not his biggest fan, but he certainly deserves much respect for his huge body of work. I don't see how one could dismiss that with a straight face.

Cheers,
Chris
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I agree completely on both counts Chris. Why would anyone willingly cut off a path to continued learning when it comes to shooting film, even in one's leisure. Tangents can be the spice of living and learning. I cannot wait to fire up my bolex rex 1/tobin tcs ttl or my canon 1018 and shoot bts of my camera in action... I like the juxtaposition that might create. I also see RED as a clean pl mount sampler that one can do filmouts for looks... Now finding the line on how "homebrew" one can get with this process could be a "barrel of monkeys" fun and confuse the hell out of everyone in the process.:)

Cheers,

Andrew

PS-killfilm: I was just joking above to relieve the tension...
 
my apolygies for the swearing everyone

but i'm not aploygizing on the views of film, being prohibitively expensive to begin with has caused many only to dream of shooting a full feature

all i'm saying is steven is a good director, but he aint the only one out there,
and i'll bet if those same aspiring filmmakers had the TOOLS, MONEY, POWER, CREWS and CONNECTIONS in HOLLYWOOD then they can do the same or better job than spielberg.

RED has now opened the doors to many filmmakers, BUT of course, good Writing, acting, lighting etc. is still needed,

instead of renting a panavision or buying an arri for 233,000 dollars, you can get a 4k RED CAM for 200,000 dollars cheaper and use the other money to buy a 4k projector to show spielberg what he's missing:bleh:
 
KnockOutFilms said:
Am I missing something? When did this forum turn so hateful? Saying "f**k so and so" because they choose to shoot film?

Is this still a forum for professionals or has it turned into something else?

Chris
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What is weird Chris, Im seeing this same strange cloud at CML. CML has always for the most part been a group of professionals that have respected one another's opinions and enjoyed sharing new ideas. Not so lately. Very weird; maybe it's just a mirror of what's happening to our society in large....

Michael Pappas
 
Isn't Dalsa Origin more close to the film quality having 16 bit image and RED 12 bit. Better latitude.
 
KnockOutFilms said:
Is this still a forum for professionals or has it turned into something else?

Chris
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Interesting question. My thoughts are that it is a forum of renegades. That is, there are professionals here who have done their due diligence, and there are soon-to-be professionals, a la RED. I think it is just a forum that marks the new starting point of movie-making.

edit: but with all due respect to those who will use RED for something other than making movies
 
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