SpeedGrade

[Johnny Friday]

I tried to load a ONE clip EDL today.....at 29.97...NO luck to get SG to even recognize the clip as 29.97....seems to have project set at 24fps....and i can't find a way to change it....And of course CRASHED on one clip on 3 out of 6 attempts.

 

[jake blackstone]

My question is why?
What can one possibly gain by using SG vs Resolve Lite. Granted, I want to see the diversity in the marketplace. Unfortunately, so far, Adobe hasn't came up with any compelling reasons to even investigate SG. None! Right now, even getting the material from PP into Resolve is easier, than SG, if one wants to grade with RAW material. You can just use XML with Resolve. Send to SG does only DPX transcode. For RAW one has to use an EDL.
Right now Resolve has a great tracker (soon to get even better), an easy round-tripping with all major NLEs, support for all control panels, support for multiple GPUs, remote grading and it is all free (well not the multiple GPUs and the remote grading part)!!! By the time Adobe finally does something meaningful, Resolve will move onto the next version 9, which is a HUGE update. I feel Adobe waisted the opportunity to become a serious player in color grading. I was unhappy with BM, when they released a free Resolve Lite. Well, now it seems, it actually was quite an astute decision.

 

[shashbugu]

My question is why?
What can one possibly gain by using SG vs Resolve Lite. Granted, I want to see the diversity in the marketplace. Unfortunately, so far, Adobe hasn't came up with any compelling reasons to even investigate SG. None! Right now, even getting the material from PP into Resolve is easier, than SG, if one wants to grade with RAW material. You can just use XML with Resolve. Send to SG does only DPX transcode. For RAW one has to use an EDL.
Right now Resolve has a great tracker (soon to get even better), an easy round-tripping with all major NLEs, support for all control panels, support for multiple GPUs, remote grading and it is all free (well not the multiple GPUs and the remote grading part)!!! By the time Adobe finally does something meaningful, Resolve will move onto the next version 9, which is a HUGE update. I feel Adobe waisted the opportunity to become a serious player in color grading. I was unhappy with BM, when they released a free Resolve Lite. Well, now it seems, it actually was quite an astute decision.

I agree with you that when it comes to feature set; compared to Resolve, SG is like the built in NLE color corrector. However you can try this yourself... when it comes to actual color fidelity, the the colors graded out of Speedgrade are deep and richer than from resolve. I'm no colorist or scientist and I only have a dream color and Pana plasma. Side by side, the same r3d graded in resolve with the same parameters looks way better out of Speedgrade. Again you could obviously as a pro colorist get the same results or much better than i'm getting with any Color grading App. Please try it out and let us know... We always look forward to info on grading from u.

 

[Johnny Friday]

I agree with you that when it comes to feature set; compared to Resolve, SG is like the built in NLE color corrector. However you can try this yourself... when it comes to actual color fidelity, the the colors graded out of Speedgrade are deep and richer than from resolve. I'm no colorist or scientist and I only have a dream color and Pana plasma. Side by side, the same r3d graded in resolve with the same parameters looks way better out of Speedgrade. Again you could obviously as a pro colorist get the same results or much better than i'm getting with any Color grading App. Please try it out and let us know... We always look forward to info on grading from u.

Trying to get a clip loaded for a novice is a PAIN....not very user friendly IMO>SG that is....i'm going to dip my finger into reslove tonight or tomorrow night...see how it works. That said, i cannot get prores to come out nice unless i use an apple product: FCP and mostly COLOR...SDI, HDMI or DVI....all across the board in every test....COLOR hands down is the winner when i look at side by side grades...

 

[Tim Hole]

@Jake Aren't you limited to HD with Resolve Lite though?

SG is early days...I'm interested to see where they take it. Its better than what was previously available with Production Premium at any rate.

 

[Mike Halper]

In my opinion Speedgrade is unusable because you can only output to a monitor if you have a specific Nvidia Quadro card with SDI. That's even worse than Blackmagic Design limiting output to be only via their own output devices. But at least I can buy an Intensity Extreme for $300 and output via HDMI or an Ultra Studio for $500 and output via SDI or HDMI from my MacBook Pro, or even higher end options if I want.

The Speedgrade interface is not intuitive at all, whereas at least I can sort of figure out how Resolve works without looking at a manual or tutorial. With Speedgrade I'm completely lost.

Color still wins for compatibility with output display devices though, as well as for dual screen support which I really miss in Resolve since I have to use the only Thunderbolt on my MacBook Pro for monitoring via an Intensity Extreme.

 

[jake blackstone]

@Jake Aren't you limited to HD with Resolve Lite though?

No, Resolve Lite isn't limited in any way whatsoever. If you have GPU with enough RAM, there is no reason, why you couldn't finish in 4K. Frankly, if anyone have an issue paying $1k for a full version of Resolve, they probably will have more serious problems with monitoring 4K. And I just hope you're not someone, who feels, that everything today has to always be finished 4k?

 

[Scott Crawley]

No, Resolve Lite isn't limited in any way whatsoever. If you have GPU with enough RAM, there is no reason, why you couldn't finish in 4K. Frankly, if anyone have an issue paying $1k for a full version of Resolve, they probably will have more serious problems with monitoring 4K. And I just hope you're not someone, who feels, that everything today has to always be finished 4k?

So what am I missing, Jake? The highest export option I'm seeing is 1080 and the documentation says as much. Are you referring to a new version, or is there some way to coax higher res out of Resolve Lite? XML back to Premiere for final export?

 

[jake blackstone]

I agree with you that when it comes to feature set; compared to Resolve, SG is like the built in NLE color corrector. However you can try this yourself... when it comes to actual color fidelity, the the colors graded out of Speedgrade are deep and richer than from resolve. I'm no colorist or scientist and I only have a dream color and Pana plasma. Side by side, the same r3d graded in resolve with the same parameters looks way better out of Speedgrade. Again you could obviously as a pro colorist get the same results or much better than i'm getting with any Color grading App. Please try it out and let us know... We always look forward to info on grading from u.

I played with SG before it was acquired by Adobe. I know, that SG is exactly the same, as before. When BM bought DaVinci, first thing they did was to port it to OSX. Then it was ported to Windows and reissued as a free version. Since purchasing SG, Adobe had done zilch. At the time, I really disliked SG's interface and it's pedestrian toolbox. I see no reason to spend any more time getting to know the tool, that offers nothing new. For jobs, that need a quick turnaround, I'll stick with Resolve. Version 9 will make this decision even easier.

 

[jake blackstone]

So what am I missing, Jake? The highest export option I'm seeing is 1080 and the documentation says as much. Are you referring to a new version, or is there some way to coax higher res out of Resolve Lite? XML back to Premiere for final export?

Well, for one, I'd be interested to know what documentation you're quoting, as Resolve doesn't even have a separate user manual for Resolve Lite. It's the same manual, because both versions are virtually the same, with the exception of remote grading, single GPU and no import/export of projects. Everything else is the same.
As far as rendering resolution, you can set pretty much any resolution, including 4k in the render set up.

 

[Mike Halper]

Resolve Lite is limited to rendering in 1080p max (though they say 2K). If you want beyond that you have to buy the full version. You'll see this when you go to the render tab/window.

http://blackmagic-design.com/products/davinciresolve/models/

 

[jake blackstone]

Resolve Lite is limited to rendering in 1080p max (though they say 2K). If you want beyond that you have to buy the full version. You'll see this when you go to the render tab/window.

http://blackmagic-design.com/products/davinciresolve/models/

Well, I have a full version. I guess , that's why I never seen this limitation. Actually, can't remember last time, when I was asked to deliver anything higher, than HD. Nevertheless, as I said before, if you need 2k and above rendering resolution, Resolve is the least of your problems. Display, capable of 2k and above will be much more, than $1K, needed to enable full version of Resolve. BTW, how's SG deals with 4K delivery on a single GPU? This can't be good

 

[Scott Crawley]

You're definitely right about the manual. I forget now where I read it.

For grins I tried to set a customized output higher than 1080 and it wouldn't accept 4 keystrokes for width if the first digit is any higher than 1. Maybe it won't accept the setting because of my system limitations.

BTW, add no noise reduction to your list as well. I did read that the full version offers NR, yes?

Well, for one, I'd be interested to know what documentation you're quoting, as Resolve doesn't even have a separate user manual for Resolve Lite. It's the same manual, because both versions are virtually the same, with the exception of remote grading, single GPU and no import/export of projects. Everything else is the same.
As far as rendering resolution, you can set pretty much any resolution, including 4k in the render set up.

 

[Mike Halper]

Only with Nvidia CUDA GPU's too.

 

[jake blackstone]

You're definitely right about the manual. I forget now where I read it.

For grins I tried to set a customized output higher than 1080 and it wouldn't accept 4 keystrokes for width if the first digit is any higher than 1. Maybe it won't accept the setting because of my system limitations.

BTW, add no noise reduction to your list as well. I did read that the full version offers NR, yes?

Yes, this is correct, but no big loss. When it does work, NR in Resolve is awful...

 

[Scott Crawley]

Yes, this is correct, but no big loss. When it does work, NR in Resolve is awful...

Oh. So Neat Video trumps them all? Does that mean any workflow that requires NR is grading from a codec and not RAW?

I have been experimenting with blue channel blur as a means to control noise, but so far that is only getting me about 80% of the way there. So far I'm finding Neat Video on ProRes is yielding better, even best results.

Would any of you suggest an alternative?

 

[jake blackstone]

Oh. So Neat Video trumps them all? Does that mean any workflow that requires NR is grading from a codec and not RAW?

I have been experimenting with blue channel blur as a means to control noise, but so far that is only getting me about 80% of the way there. So far I'm finding Neat Video on ProRes is yielding better, even best results.

Would any of you suggest an alternative?

No NR works from RAW. And so is grading, editing and compositing. It is a common fallacy. Images always need to be uncomprresed, debayered and gamma encoded first and only then they can be manipulated. Neat Video is the popular NR software. It is higher quality NR, because it is temporal based, unlike the one in Resolve. I wouldn't recommend blurring the blue channel. In this case using NR in Resolve will yeld higher quality.
Said that, I think, by now we veered off too far away from the original subject of SG.

 

[Lin]

I played with SG before it was acquired by Adobe. I know, that SG is exactly the same, as before. When BM bought DaVinci, first thing they did was to port it to OSX. Then it was ported to Windows and reissued as a free version. Since purchasing SG, Adobe had done zilch. At the time, I really disliked SG's interface and it's pedestrian toolbox. I see no reason to spend any more time getting to know the tool, that offers nothing new. For jobs, that need a quick turnaround, I'll stick with Resolve. Version 9 will make this decision even easier.

Jake,

have you actually looked at SpeedGrade CS6? There are significant changes in both workflow and UI.

Lin

 

[Lin]

I tried to load a ONE clip EDL today.....at 29.97...NO luck to get SG to even recognize the clip as 29.97....seems to have project set at 24fps....and i can't find a way to change it....And of course CRASHED on one clip on 3 out of 6 attempts.

Click on Settings (rightmost tab at the top), choose Editing. Change base frame rate to 29.97. Then double click on the EDL to load.

Bring more info on the crashes into the Adobe SpeedGrade forum and we will find out what trouble you are having. Sometimes driver issues can cause this, SpeedGrade uses the graphics card to a much wider extent than other applications.

Lin

 

[Lin]

Trying to get a clip loaded for a novice is a PAIN....not very user friendly IMO>SG that is....i'm going to dip my finger into reslove tonight or tomorrow night...see how it works. That said, i cannot get prores to come out nice unless i use an apple product: FCP and mostly COLOR...SDI, HDMI or DVI....all across the board in every test....COLOR hands down is the winner when i look at side by side grades...

To load a clip in SpeedGrade, all you have to do is to launch the application and double click on the clip you want to load. Hit space to play, click on the Look tab to start grading.

More info at: http://adobe.ly/I5cTRv

Lin