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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Speedgrade Raw & DPX Workflow CS-6

Out of curiosity, would a transcode into Cineform allow Speedgrade to then work within the New Premiere. Iridas "Speedgrade On Set" is part of the SI2K image recording system which is natively Cineform. Would SI2K preset "looks" be capable of being applied to raw images from the RED camera family in this environment? Just a random thought.
 
Is roundtripping between PPro and SG without need for EDL (i.e. Send to Speedgrade and Send to Premiere Pro) to stay with R3D's something we'll see as an update with CS6 like CS6.0.1 or will we need to wait until CS6.5? Is there an option for exporting XML from PPro and importing XML into Speedgreade instead of EDL, or is EDL the only way to stay with the R3D's in this release?
 
Mike Halper said:
Is roundtripping between PPro and SG without need for EDL (i.e. Send to Speedgrade and Send to Premiere Pro) to stay with R3D's something we'll see as an update with CS6 like CS6.0.1 or will we need to wait until CS6.5? Is there an option for exporting XML from PPro and importing XML into Speedgreade instead of EDL, or is EDL the only way to stay with the R3D's in this release?
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EDL is the only way, but it's really painless. It's usually 5 clicks in SpeedGrade to reconnect.

As for the question about Cineform: Cineform is treated like any other Quicktime codec in both Premiere and SpeedGrade. So you gain the Cineform toolset, etc. But there is nothing special as to how SpeedGrade deals with it. In terms of the SpeedGrade stereo workflow, I think it complicates matters, but if you want to stay in the Cineform stereo tools, it's a viable workflow.

Lin
 
still really don't understand why they have gone the dpx path, if it's actually possible in 5 clicks away, maby i'm missing something. if it turns out that easy would off course prefer going the edl way.
just hope they get this update like they mentioned in the presentation today in a "weekly" update , rather then a semester update.
 
Patience...Rome wasnt built in a day. Not even in 6 months like the acquisition of SpeedGrade by Adobe. Remember its a 1.0 integration. I'm overly satisfied it even made it into the suite in such a short amount of time.
 
Sven Seynaeve said:
still really don't understand why they have gone the dpx path, if it's actually possible in 5 clicks away, maby i'm missing something. if it turns out that easy would off course prefer going the edl way.
just hope they get this update like they mentioned in the presentation today in a "weekly" update , rather then a semester update.
Click to expand...

DPX was chosen to have a workflow that always works. SpeedGrade and Premiere are not yet aligned in terms of file format support. While SpeedGrade supports basically everything used in the film industry, including most frame sequence formats such as DPX, Cineon, EXR etc. and basically all RAW formats, including R3D, ARRIRAW, Phanton Cine, WEISSCAM, DNG etc., there are many broadcast camera formats that SpeedGrade doesn't understand. Using the DPX route in Send to SpeedGrade from Premiere ensures that the workflow still works. As we say, in this incarnation the workflow is "Rigid but viable". For RED, the EDL is the faster and more elegant way, as R3D is natively supported, including multiple RED Rocket support, etc.

Lin
 
Yes, Send to SpeedGrade seems like an easy way to work in a broader format support. Stuff like XDCAM-EX or AVCHD is supported by Premiere Pro and not SpeedGrade. For the RAW formats, EDL is definitely the best option for now. I am sure will we see tighter integration in coming years. Would love to see a "Send back to Premiere Pro" from SpeedGrade come CS7 time, perhaps using the .Looks metadata.

Since we have your attention, Lin, can you comment on performance with AMD Radeon and FirePro GPUs? I know Fermi based Quadro is the standing recommendation, but I couldn't find much information on AMD GPUs.
 
the only thing that I think is needed in the send to speed grade workflow is the ability to choose the format you're encoding to before sending to speed grade.. actually this feature have been in my dreams since version 5 of the cs.. coz when you start moving your project out of PPro you'll face the fact that other platforms simply doesn't support the broad range of formats that PPro does.. so, simply if you're moving the project to resolve or apple color, some formats won't be available in your composition, so, you'll have to render/convert each of the non-supported files individually from your timeline to a format that is supported by the target system..
Well, I know, SG will support the output dpx from PPro, but, the bottleneck with dpx lies on the high performance storage needed to be able to playback those dpx files, and of course the amount of the storage..
it would be great if you're able to choose the output format of the timeline exported out of PPro using the send to sg option or via project manager..
 
Can't really comment on the performance of these cards. SpeedGrade is OpenGL shader-based and doesn't use CUDA, so generally speaking those cards should be OK. Past experience shows you might need to experiment with the drivers a bit to make it all work right.

Lin
 
SpeedGrade CS6 lives up to its name. It is fast, really fast. Running on an AMD Radeon HD 7970, it seems impossible to knock it out of real-time, even at 5K (the bottleneck is the CPU decompression). I gave up after adding 13 layers and the GPU usage was only 65%! You would need multiple GTX 580s in Resolve for this kind of performance.

It has its share of quirks, more on those later.
 
Subhadip Sen said:
SpeedGrade CS6 lives up to its name. It is fast, really fast. Running on an AMD Radeon HD 7970, it seems impossible to knock it out of real-time, even at 5K (the bottleneck is the CPU decompression). I gave up after adding 13 layers and the GPU usage was only 65%! You would need multiple GTX 580s in Resolve for this kind of performance.

It has its share of quirks, more on those later.
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lol
 
Subhadip Sen said:
SpeedGrade CS6 lives up to its name. It is fast, really fast. Running on an AMD Radeon HD 7970, it seems impossible to knock it out of real-time, even at 5K (the bottleneck is the CPU decompression). I gave up after adding 13 layers and the GPU usage was only 65%! You would need multiple GTX 580s in Resolve for this kind of performance.

It has its share of quirks, more on those later.
Click to expand...

and how does the 580 perform with SG?
 
Do you have to modify your project to all sit on one video layer in premiere, or is there some way to export an EDL and preserve your editing layers. What about transitions, transforms, etc... will those work in an EDL?

Finally, when you export the DPX sequences, does it just turn into one long element in Speedgrade, or will they stay cut up? What about transitions and keyframes in that case?
 
Tried out GTX 580. There's some image corruption with the latest 301.xx drivers, had to roll back to 296.xx with which everything works fine. Performance is down from 7970 but still pretty good. The timeline that was playing real-time at 1/2 res (2560x1280) is now dropping back to 1/4 (1280x640). GPU usage is around ~90%. With a more realistic array of layers, GTX 580 handles things pretty easily at 1/2 res for 5K files. Also, I noticed 12 GB RAM usage, which seems to indicate that SG caches rendered frames aggressively. I will test it thoroughly next weekend, these are just preliminary observations and it is quite possible I am missing something.

By the way, give it a try - follow Kemalettin's instructions here: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread...-HAVE-NO-WORDS&p=997542&viewfull=1#post997542. Would love to hear how it's working for you guys.
 
David McGavran said:
As you note Speedgrade is very new to the Adobe family. We did what we could in this release to have some integration. It won't be perfect for everyone. We are going to be looking for feedback as we work on much deeper integration in the future. For the time being. The Send to Speedgrade feature exports your sequence as a series of DPX sequences that you can grade. Premiere also exports EDL and Speedgrade imports EDL. Speedgrade has native support for R3D's and lots of other popular formats and their relinking is great.

Cheers

Dave
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grading from DPX's baked with editing metadata is probably not a very good startingpoint, and also a bit of a strange choice, considering one of speedgrades strongpoints is its (RED and other cameras), RAW integration...

G
 
Subhadip Sen said:
Tried out GTX 580. There's some image corruption with the latest 301.xx drivers, had to roll back to 296.xx with which everything works fine. Performance is down from 7970 but still pretty good. The timeline that was playing real-time at 1/2 res (2560x1280) is now dropping back to 1/4 (1280x640). GPU usage is around ~90%. With a more realistic array of layers, GTX 580 handles things pretty easily at 1/2 res for 5K files. Also, I noticed 12 GB RAM usage, which seems to indicate that SG caches rendered frames aggressively. I will test it thoroughly next weekend, these are just preliminary observations and it is quite possible I am missing something.

By the way, give it a try - follow Kemalettin's instructions here: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread...-HAVE-NO-WORDS&p=997542&viewfull=1#post997542. Would love to hear how it's working for you guys.
Click to expand...

Hi Subhadip,

you can control the amount of RAM being used for the cache in the SpeedGrade user settings: Hit 'S' to switch to the settings tab, then click on 'Cache'. The default is 50% of your RAM, which is usually a value you don't have to change unless you are using Premiere/After Effects or another RAM-heavy application in parallel.

Lin
 
Gunleik Groven said:
grading from DPX's baked with editing metadata is probably not a very good startingpoint, and also a bit of a strange choice, considering one of speedgrades strongpoints is its (RED and other cameras), RAW integration...

G
Click to expand...

Gunleik - the DPX route is meant as an 'will always work' fallback method. For RED users the EDL route is very straightforward and much more elegant. While SpeedGrade, because of where it comes from, supports basically all of the 'Digital Film' file formats, it does not yet support the vast amount of formats that comes from come from cameras mainly used in the broadcast industry. For those formats, 'Send to SpeedGrade' is the right tool for now.

Lin
 
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