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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Sound Devices PIX 240 ProRes/DNxHD Video Recorder with EPIC

Shane Kelly said:
FYI, here's a couple of screen grabs, no color correction whatsoever, one from the r3d 5kff and the second one from the pix prores 422. I've left the framelines on the pix one in order to differentiate it. You can send a clean output from the epic.
If we get the full frame output from the epic (no black bars) and a custom look out the sdi (redlogfilm if needs be), it would destroy any argument for using the alexa. At the end of the job you could have a ready to edit format and r3d 5k files for grading.
Click to expand...

Alexa can record 4:4:4 Prores, SD PIX240 can not...this is a big argument for using Alexa if you online from Prores
 
Greg M said:
Alexa can record 4:4:4 Prores, SD PIX240 can not...this is a big argument for using Alexa if you online from Prores
Click to expand...

True, in fact I would discourage the files being used for online as the r3d's are going to be a lot better anyway. However, for offline, they are perfect.
 
Steve Wake said:
Hey Matt,

Since you're hanging out here tonight, here's a question: would it be of any interest to Sound Devices to make a Pix 240 with a RED module form factor, taking advantage of the pins that go directly to Epic/Scarlet Brain circuits? No screen, but instead interface with RED's menus. Same audio inputs as PIX/MixPre, plus maybe also more MixPre type functions - limiters, test signal, knobs, led meters. Power from RED supply.

How many would you have to sell to make it viable? I think a lot of Scarlet owners will have customers who just want 1080p files for quite awhile. 4K is the future, but the transition will be lengthy for certain sectors.
Click to expand...

Steve,

Sorry, too many forums and not enough time...

Of interest? Sure. But we would obviously have to get the blessing (and technical info) from Red to do it. I'm not involved in any of those higher level manufacturer-manufacturer discussions so I can't even begin to say whether it is even a possibility.
 
Shane Kelly said:
True, in fact I would discourage the files being used for online as the r3d's are going to be a lot better anyway. However, for offline, they are perfect.
Click to expand...

The R3D is alway going to be superior, but many producers are demanding ProRes right out of the camera. Pix 240 is a great solution. Alexa's ability to record 444 is an advantage over the Epic Pix route but only a small one, not a big one. The only advantage 10 bit 444 offers over 10 bit 422 is less artifacts due to heavy grading. If you do a some look adjustment in camera with Epic getting the image half way between Red Log Film and a final grade look then the amount of artifacting after grading can be reduced to a point there is almost no difference between 444 and 422.
 
Mark Crabtree said:
The R3D is alway going to be superior, but many producers are demanding ProRes right out of the camera. Pix 240 is a great solution. Alexa's ability to record 444 is an advantage over the Epic Pix route but only a small one, not a big one. The only advantage 10 bit 444 offers over 10 bit 422 is less artifacts due to heavy grading. If you do a some look adjustment in camera with Epic getting the image half way between Red Log Film and a final grade look then the amount of artifacting after grading can be reduced to a point there is almost no difference between 444 and 422.
Click to expand...

No question r3D is superior, but that doesn't seem to matter to a lot of people who demand the Alexa.
FYI- Alexa is 12bit 444, and it does make a big difference vs 10bit 422. But really that doesn't matter as much as the perceived workflow advantage the Alexa offers for TVC work where we see most jobs going.
 
stu aull said:
has RED got a time-line when they will address the Crop on the SDI output that results in bars on the top and bottom of the PIX screen - and subsequent recording....?
Click to expand...

What record format do you have selected on the camera - 4K HD or other ?
 
Stuart English said:
What record format do you have selected on the camera - 4K HD or other ?
Click to expand...

There's bars on 5kFF for sure. My camera just went out but I think that in 4kHD there's bars all around the picture area, not just top and bottom.
 
Greg M said:
No question r3D is superior, but that doesn't seem to matter to a lot of people who demand the Alexa.
FYI- Alexa is 12bit 444, and it does make a big difference vs 10bit 422. But really that doesn't matter as much as the perceived workflow advantage the Alexa offers for TVC work where we see most jobs going.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. I do mostly TV commercials and they have no life beyond 1080. Before I started shooting with the Pix my usual workflow was to convert to CineForm 12 bit 444 1080 and then grade. Doing split screens between the 12 bit CineForm totally post graded and the 10 bit DNXHD partially graded in camera and partially in post we cannot tell any visible difference on our 50 inch plasma monitors. I know this means nothing to producers who have bought into the Alexa workflow but it works for our needs. I do wish the Epic could do a little in camera sharpening to the SDI out. The Pix files are just the slightest bit softer than the CineForm files because the CineForm conversion utility includes sharpening, and so does Red Cine X. We do use post sharpening tools on the DNXHD files and that makes them look great, but I would really like it if Epic would do some sharpening in camera. When Red comes out with their own proxy recorder for 12 bit 444 1080, hopefully soon, then we will have something closer to apples to apples with the Alexa workflow.
 
Shane Kelly said:
There's bars on 5kFF for sure. My camera just went out but I think that in 4kHD there's bars all around the picture area, not just top and bottom.
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with 5K, the letterbox is normal.
5KFF is not 16:9 so it will never be full frame 1080P...what you want is a 5KHD format to fill the frame.

All the 4K formats are not full raster...once this is fixed 4KHD will do the trick as well...the other 4K formats will be letter boxed as they should.

The only issue here is:
1- 4K is not FULL RASTER- this needs to be fixed by Red
2- We also need a 5K 16:9 format, which is not currently available
 
Greg M said:
There is nothing wrong with 5K, the letterbox is normal.
5KFF is not 16:9 so it will never be full frame 1080P...what you want is a 5KHD format to fill the frame.

All the 4K formats are not full raster...once this is fixed 4KHD will do the trick as well...the other 4K formats will be letter boxed as they should.

The only issue here is:
1- 4K is not FULL RASTER- this needs to be fixed by Red
2- We also need a 5K 16:9 format, which is not currently available
Click to expand...

no, there are additional bars inside of the letterbox but I do agree with you that 5k16x9 is sorely needed.
 
4KHD is 3840 X 2160, which is 1.778:1 or 16:9
5KFF is 5120 X 2700 which is 1.896:1 (which BTW is same ratio as 4K DCI spec 4096 X 2160)

1st image is with Epic set at 4KHD- this is 16:9 so we should have a FULL RASTER image when recorded at 1080.- as you can see the image is not full raster...if it was the image would fill the frame and there would not be a letter box
2nd image is with Epic set at 5KFF- this is not 16:9 so there is a letterbox. This is normal
 

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I have raised this issue a number of times but no one has commented. I am hoping for Epic to do some sharpening on the SDI out. I find the image recorded on the Pix to be just a small bit soft. Anyone have a comment?
 
Greg M said:
4KHD is 3840 X 2160, which is 1.778:1 or 16:9
5KFF is 5120 X 2700 which is 1.896:1 (which BTW is same ratio as 4K DCI spec 4096 X 2160)

1st image is with Epic set at 4KHD- this is 16:9 so we should have a FULL RASTER image when recorded at 1080.- as you can see the image is not full raster...if it was the image would fill the frame and there would not be a letter box
2nd image is with Epic set at 5KFF- this is not 16:9 so there is a letterbox. This is normal
Click to expand...

What firmware version on PIX are you on?
 
Greg is spot on about the current situation. Hopefully a fix is eminent. Will help the PIX workflow tremendously.
 
For TV jobs it would be great to be able to take advantage of the full sensor on the scarlet.
When the scarlet is shooting @ 5k @ 12fps you only get 12fps from the SDI? Im not clear where in the signal path the limitation is imposed.
TIA
Sam
 
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