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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Sony Vegas 9 & R3d

stricko108 said:
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Hi Kaz, when you mention encoding quality over premiere, what format are you talking there, I've never used vegas and always looking for the best encoders for dvd and web delivery.
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Hi. I was mostly just making a general statement about Vegas' quality, but from the few months I've spent with CS4, I've found their .mp4 encoder to be troublesome at times (like not being able to play back the file in some players, crashing, or the file sizes come out much larger than Vegas output with lesser results). Wmv has been a disaster thru Adobe Media encoder. Even putting my settings as high as they can go, I get banding and blocking where on Vegas I have successfully made 1080p files that come close to matching the quality of my original all at very managable sizes. Mpeg 2 I have not made yet thru Media encoder, but Vegas renders them at around 3-4x realtime speed on my system. Again, the quality is exceptional.

Man, I STILL have a huge smile on my face since this announcement.
 
Thanks for the response Kaz.

As far as the r3d support, is this a new sdk from red, as I thought the current sdk did not allow companies to give support for metadata control etc? Thought only scratch had the go ahead for that, or did I miss understand this subject.

THanks
stricko
 
Kaz, am I the only one that fears preview power/speed?

I am thinkning about how fast my current system plays back 1080 DVCpro HD and wonder how the crap V9 will be able to handle 4k r3d... granted, I am still in XP-32, using only 4GB of DDR2 on a Q6600 quad at 3.15GHz and Nehalem + loads of DDR3 will be a different beast... but we are talking 4 x 1080p .r3d

I'd love to hear people's opinions on this subject.
 
Yeah, I'm a little worried about preview, but I've been able to edit uncompressed 2k avi's without a preview hitch on my current system (i7 920~12gb ram). I do have stutter problems with wmv and large mp4s though. Guess we won't know for sure 'til it's actually here, but I remain cautiously optimistic.
 
Kaz said:
I've been able to edit uncompressed 2k avi's without a preview hitch on my current system (i7 920~12gb ram). I do have stutter problems with wmv and large mp4s though.
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That sounds encouraging though. If you don't mind I'd love to ask you a few questions:

1. Is your 920 at stock speed?
2. Do you use a production monitor? With what card?
3. On your LCD do you get banding? What video card?

Finally, I am not sure if you guys saw the announcement of Red Rocket: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29331

Vegas was not mentioned. Perhaps we should ask in unison.
 
Great news is an understatement. - Anybody seen 3K in action at NAB? I wonder how much or how little hardware is needed to run Vegas9 for 3K editing 2K output. Anybody? Guessing is allowed :)
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
That sounds encouraging though. If you don't mind I'd love to ask you a few questions:

1. Is your 920 at stock speed?
2. Do you use a production monitor? With what card?
3. On your LCD do you get banding? What video card?

Finally, I am not sure if you guys saw the announcement of Red Rocket: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=29331

Vegas was not mentioned. Perhaps we should ask in unison.
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Hey, Roberto.

1. Yes.
2. Not at the moment.
3. No. 280gtx

As far as Vegas not being mentioned in the Red Rocket thread, Jim states any application using the REDCODE SDK will be accelerated, so I don't see why Vegas wouldn't be among them.
 
Kaz, thanks man! I was really needing someone to say that Red Rocket would work and stop assuming that all alone. :)

About the video card, I wonder if a 260/216 or 275 would do to eliminate banding at 1080? I suppose it should.

And I wonder if they would suffice for 1080/2k real time grading.

And I wonder how it will all work with a monitor?

Don't wait to order Vegas 9, if you pre-order it now you get a very nice discount! You'll see it on the cart.
 
You guys got to be really careful about how you propagate this information, else it will become FUD... I spent a lot of time at the Sony and Adobe booths critically examining this stuff for playback/performance.

It is important to realize that while the project is 4k, and the media is 4k, because of the R3D "dynamic proxies", you are typically not seeing 4k real-time playback.

In the case of Sony Vegas, at their booth, while it was a 4k timeline, and 4k R3D media, the preview settings in Vegas are typically set to Preview or Draft at Quarter or "Auto" quality. At the bottom of the preview window are a couple of numbers (resolutions) At the top left (under the preview frame), is the project resolution, below which is the "Preview" resolution. Top right (still at the bottom of the window) is the "Display" resolution. The all important number here is the "Preview" resolution. This is the resolution that is actually being decoded for preview on the timeline. The absolute best I could see from ANY of the Sony machines (including the high-end machine up in the private suite above the booth space) was 1024x512 (2:1), or 4k @ 1/4 res.

Again, be VERY careful when you say "4k-real-time." Even Adobe's solution, on the HP Z, could only manage a single stream of 4k media at 1/2 resolution (2k output). This was truly impressive. The instant you start doing disolves or multiple layers with alpha channels, you will start to drop frames on playback.

RED Rocket will be a huge help in regard to decode performance for all systems. In asking the Sony/Vegas reps about hardware acceleration (GPU support, etc). He said they were looking into it, but that they prefer to focus on a solution that is machine independent, and which produces consistent, accurate output regardless of which hardware you have. They are struggling with these ideas, vs taking advantage of hardware when available.




Roberto Lequeux said:
WOOOWWW.... Must calm down... I need to hear more about this... I am SO sticking with Vegas if this turns out to be flawless. I need SPEED, and Vegas has always lagged behind in a big way.

BUT about 5k 2.4?!?!!! This is so close yet so far away! I guess you could down convert from 5k to 4k and stay with .r3d? Might as well make a ProRes at that point? I'd love some opinions on this!





Couldn't agree more!



Could this give us everything we need? Some grading real time would be ideal but I guess that is still not near for any NLE running on a single station. But at least 100% solid RT playback?



Same here. This would make me jump because we'd need the memory. it really isn't an option. I haven't heard complaining about Vista for a while now.
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I don't think anyone here is expecting "4k realtime" playback. We are just hoping for "realtime" playback since Vegas can be stuttery in that regard for some formats. IMO, 1k editing will be enough for most people, especially if it produces realtime performance using multiple layers, transitions, FX etc. Being able to quickly switch to 2k or above for a more accurate image analysis then back again will certainly suffice until Red Rocket becomes available/supported.
 
Real time playback is easily doable. I do it on my laptop all the time, w/ R3D. It just depends on how willing you are to accept editing with the lower-res proxies. Its the same as cutting in FCP with the various QT proxy files. The 1k playback for Vegas was still only for 1 stream (no layers, no transitions). You'd have to drop to 512x256 (Draft/Quarter Res) to maintain 2 streams in real time (on their hardware... get a HP Z, and things will be different).
 
I would be very interested in what people think about what would be a good workstation for Vegas 9. I am ordering the upgrade. I was all set to switch to a Mac Pro and Final Cut so this is great for me. Does anyone know if there is a Dual i7 motherboard out there. I can't find one. Which would be better a single processor i7 or 2 w5580s? Any sharing on hardware would be greatly appreciated.
 
Kyle Mallory said:
The absolute best I could see from ANY of the Sony machines (including the high-end machine up in the private suite above the booth space) was 1024x512 (2:1), or 4k @ 1/4 res.
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I assumed this, since "normal" monitors can't even fit 1/2 at 2048x1024. However some might have assumed that you were seeing a scaled down version which would be impossible at all given the amount of processing necessary.

I hope Red Rocket will do just that and give us a 1080p off a 4k/5k in RT, letting all of our CPU and GPU power handle transitions VFX and grading.

Kyle Mallory said:
In asking the Sony/Vegas reps about hardware acceleration (GPU support, etc). He said they were looking into it, but that they prefer to focus on a solution that is machine independent, and which produces consistent, accurate output regardless of which hardware you have. They are struggling with these ideas, vs taking advantage of hardware when available.
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Thank you for asking all the right questions. Thankfully it would seem that Vegas would benefit from SDK acceleration whether they are lost or not. I would hope that is the case anyway... if they fudged it up it would really suck.

So would only have to make sure that we have a computer capable of handling 1080 uncompressed RGB with a Rocket? That should be attainable with ease by dual Xeons and topped out RAM, right?

Hugh Scully said:
I would be very interested in what people think about what would be a good workstation for Vegas 9. I am ordering the upgrade. I was all set to switch to a Mac Pro and Final Cut so this is great for me. Does anyone know if there is a Dual i7 motherboard out there. I can't find one. Which would be better a single processor i7 or 2 w5580s? Any sharing on hardware would be greatly appreciated.
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There might be an ASUS enthusiast board coming out soon that would let you overclock two Xeons. You will not find a dual 920 board though it will have to be Xeons but it doesn't matter... a little bit more money yes, but same performance.
 
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