Sony PMW-F3L vs. RED-One ???

[Stuart English]

Sample Rate

Sample Rate

What is the frequency with which you have to sample a square wave in order to run no risk of aliasing

You can't create the frequency needed to do that As a square wave is an infinite series of odd harmonic sine waves at 3x, 5x, 7x, 9x ... to infinity x the base frequency, you need a sample rate of 2 x infinity to prevent all aliasing... Being practical though, you can apply a low pass filter to limit the max frequency sine wave, perhaps to the 3rd harmonic or better the 5th harmonic sine wave. Which in turn would imply a minimum 10x base frequency sample rate.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

The average audience member knows the difference between 3D and 2D but doesn't even have the eyesight necessary to differentiate between 2k and 4k (let alone the 300lpph, or about 720p of resolution, the average print has nowadays).

And naturally you base this on multiple comparative tests done with the average viewer audience with native digital 4K material, using real imagery and not black and white stripes or checkerboard, projected on a 4K projector with proper glass on it and in front of it, in 4K/2K side by side split screen, and test, white paper and/or case study which is not funded, or pushed by any 2K/1080P camera manufacturer.

 

[Matt W.]

And naturally you base this on multiple comparative tests done with the average viewer audience with native digital 4K material, using real imagery and not black and white stripes or checkerboard, projected on a 4K projector with proper glass on it and in front of it, in 4K/2K side by side split screen, and test, white paper and/or case study which is not funded, or pushed by any 2K/1080P camera manufacturer.

Yep. It was a lot of work but it was worth it.

 

[Joe Carney]

You know, not everyone is shooting for theatrical distribution, there are types of projects (beyond You Tube) where some people will find the F3 useful.

I agree that it gets a bit silly when someone posts "Canon 7D versus Red One?", which is a pretty extreme difference, but you can't on the one hand say that the F3 "competes" with the AF100 even though it is 3X the price when the Red One is at least 2X the price of the F3, so from a cost standpoint, the camera sits between the two others, and from a performance standpoint, it also seems to fit between the two. I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that the F3 matches the Red One's performance, it's more of a question of whether the F3 serves a particular need and whether you are getting value for money.

Like I posted, I don't have a problem with the product, it seems like a natural evolution beyond DSLR video, I just think it's priced too high. It "feels" like it should be a $9000 camera.

9K might put it in direct competition with the upcoming NX version of the camera. which will be a direct competitor to the AF-100 in the 5K to 7K price range, though I think it would end up being an EX1 vs EX3 sort of deal if they actually were smart enough to price it like that.

Everyone is wondering "What were they thinking with the 8bit 4:2:0 codec".

All I can say is last year, we had the local Vegas user group meeting at Sony's K street offices in DC and the Sony rep mentioned the company has made a long term commitment to expanding the EX line. He didn't say anything more on the subject. EX = 35mbit Mpeg2 codec for the time being. So, I'm not surprised at all.

I think this camera will sell well to existing users invested in Sony production tools. That's all Sony has been marketing it as anyway.

When Scarlett 2/3" hits the shelves, it will become even more esoteric.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Yep. It was a lot of work but it was worth it.

With respect...

Seems like someone in the information exchange chain has accidentally or deliberately confused "don't see the difference" with "don't care about the difference enough for us to pay the upgrade".

 

[paulherrin]

this bickering, which i've been a part of i admit... is why this discussion needs to end, or move to dvxuser. everyone's said what they need to say. let's see how the camera tests go when its released. until then... happy new years.

 

[Matt W.]

I agree. I'm kidding about doing a test, btw, although I have 20-15 vision and personally can't tell the difference between 1080p video and 4k film scans (which, mathematically, should have perceived similar sharpness, though film has more resolution; Red's video should handily beat both, of course). Anyhow, 25 years ago it was mostly betacam and 125ISO film. This stuff is all awesome. I'm thrilled when I get to use a 7d and I openly admit it's awful by modern standards.

 

[LUIS ALBERTO CABRERA]

Why would it give RED a run for the money?

A

It is nice to have options but i don't see how can the sony can be compare
whit the RED…!
2 different animals.