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Sony FX3 Leak - Sony gunning for both RED Komodo & BM Pocket series at once?

Zack Birlew

Zack Birlew

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Okay, there's a leak on a supposed Sony FX3, an odd naming scheme or a complete table flip on the lineup, and it is supposed to not only offer HFR 4K but also 8K UHD video. Source is SonyAlphaRumors:

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/leaked-sony-fx3-product-image/

Alright, if it is what it looks like and it's any good, and there's currently no evidence that Sony would pump the brakes with 10-bit minimum video features on their current release streak, this throws the gauntlet down against the Komodo and the Blackmagic Pocket series in a big way. Like I've said before in other threads, 8K is seemingly going to be dropping in hard and fast this year and the video examples from the A1 are pretty killer so if this matches that then there's only the question of final features, price, and release date. In my case, I have a bunch of E-mount adapters already for my A7S but not too much more ecosystem than that and I do have a speed boosted Pocket 4K that was a load of fun to use for pickups on my first feature so if this really serves as a combination between the two then that would be pretty exciting!

Still, if this rumor turns out to be true and it's not some fake image, then I would wager that the odds of a Blackmagic Pocket 8K or even 12K just went way up and that could be even better! That would just leave RED and what mysterious cards they have yet to play. What do you all think? Any thoughts/hopes/theories about what this could be and what it means for whatever comes down the line next?
 
It's real, after all. But, no 8K. I hope it's S35, but I bet it's VV, based on the fact that a 35/1.4 is attached to it in the press image.

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/lea...-and-records-4k-120p-and-has-no-8k-recording/

I am betting that Red already considered a camera like this, but decided against it.

Either way, the FX3 is the closest thing to a true DSMC that I've yet seen. I still wish we got the 3K Scarlet, which was then the closest thing. But, here we are.
 
You should look on YouTube. There's literally a hundreds of good looking Komodo pieces. Not to mention commercials and things that have made it to air already.


Andrew Dease said:
Also any particular reason ALL brands seem to be STEPPING IT UP in the past year or so?
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Companies need to sell cameras. That said, technology is also advancing real fast to allow for a lot of these newer offerings at their given price points.


Can't talk about the FX3 yet, but what I will say is look closer at what Sony is doing with the Airpeak Drone and you'll see why cameras such as the FX3 might be important for what they are doing.

If you recently bought an FX6 or A7sIII, don't freak out.
 
If it's for Airpeak, I wonder if it'll have global shutter as well... Doesn't the A1 have an RS of 3ms (or something crazy) at 8k? If the FX3 is only 4k, does that mean it could be a 1/4 of that? I'd think the difference between GS and sub-1ms RS would be negligible. The beauty about media being so cheap and fast these days is that a lot of these cameras can start doing internal raw at less than 5:1 to get around patents.

BMD has there camera update next week, too! Here's hoping for some VV8k pocket goodness (finally) with their RGBW sensor design used on the BUMP12k. *fingers crossed*
 
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Mike P. said:
If it's for Airpeak, I wonder if it'll have global shutter as well... Doesn't the A1 have an RS of 3ms (or something crazy) at 8k? If the FX3 is only 4k, does that mean it could be a 1/4 of that? I'd think the difference between GS and sub-1ms RS would be negligible. The beauty about media being so cheap and fast these days is that a lot of these cameras can start doing internal raw at less than 5:1 to get around patents.

BMD has there camera update next week, too! Here's hoping for some VV8k pocket goodness (finally) with their RGBW sensor design used on the BUMP12k. *fingers crossed*
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It’s around 16 ish ms in 8K and about half of that in 4K. Global shutter on a body this small... with built in EVND and Full frame with the option to crop into S35 would be stellar.
 
Personally I'd take better dynamic range + fast rolling shutter over global shutter at this point.

When cameras do 16-17 actual usable stops and we have to choose between going for 19 stops or global shutter, THEN I'd be interested in global shutter.

To me Sony is making smart decisions RE: sensors.

Bruce Allen
www.bruceallen.tv
 
Han Vogen said:
It’s around 16 ish ms in 8K and about half of that in 4K. Global shutter on a body this small... with built in EVND and Full frame with the option to crop into S35 would be stellar.
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Ouuf, that would be pretty great, presuming the s35 would be 4k and the FF 4k would be downsampled (if it doesn't do 8k). EVND and IBIS and AF in a mirrorless body, oh my!

And yes, that makes sense (re: 4k being half the RS of 8k, since the total resolution is 1/4, but the vertical resolution RS is based off of is half).

So which camera had like a 3ms RS recently (it may have been 5ms FF and then 3ms in 4k/s35)? I'm sure it was a Sony, and they claimed it was virtually nonexistent in the sales points... Was it A7s3?

Bruce Allen said:
Personally I'd take better dynamic range + fast rolling shutter over global shutter at this point.

When cameras do 16-17 actual usable stops and we have to choose between going for 19 stops or global shutter, THEN I'd be interested in global shutter.

To me Sony is making smart decisions RE: sensors.
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I would too... I was just trying to think of what would make for a better aerial camera. Built-in ND, wireless control, IBIS, and GS would likely be more important factors than having 15 stops instead of 13...

But yes, Sony are doing well in their sensor designs/compromises, and they definitely have a lot of DR in even their entry-level mirrorless (colour accuracy is thin in the extremes, but it's just bonus/recoverable extra anyway).
 
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My biggest issue with the Sony SLR's is the sharpening/noise reduction that can't be dialed down to a less nasty level. The FX6 doesn't have this problem though and is a phenomenal option. The super low rolling shutter on the FX6 is also a big draw over other higher resolution options.

If this new FX3 doesn't have the nasty noise reduction and has low rolling shutter I'll be on board. Sony's auto focus is a big draw too.

Mike P. said:
Ouuf, that would be pretty great, presuming the s35 would be 4k and the FF 4k would be downsampled (if it doesn't do 8k). EVND and IBIS and AF in a mirrorless body, oh my!

And yes, that makes sense (re: 4k being half the RS of 8k, since the total resolution is 1/4, but the vertical resolution RS is based off of is half).

So which camera had like a 3ms RS recently (it may have been 5ms FF and then 3ms in 4k/s35)? I'm sure it was a Sony, and they claimed it was virtually nonexistent in the sales points... Was it A7s3?



I would too... I was just trying to think of what would make for a better aerial camera. Built-in ND, wireless control, IBIS, and GS would likely be more important factors than having 15 stops instead of 13...

But yes, Sony are doing well in their sensor designs/compromises, and they definitely have a lot of DR in even their entry-level mirrorless (colour accuracy is thin in the extremes, but it's just bonus/recoverable extra anyway).
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The URSA mini 12k has very low rolling shutter. The Sony A7S3 and FX6 also have very low rolling shutter 8ms in full frame 4k.
 
Mike P. said:
(re: 4k being half the RS of 8k, since the total resolution is 1/4, but the vertical resolution RS is based off of is half).
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Sorry for picking nits but total resolution of 4K compared to 8K is half, not 1/4.
 
Patrick Tresch said:
but 1/4 pixels ;-)

Hope it won't overheat. I looks like a beast but so small it's going to be hot.
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Rumor has it that it is actively cooled. Apparently someone recorded 13 hours straight without issue.
 
Yeah, meant the vertical res is half (4320 vs 2160), which is what dictates RS performance (hence why 8k vs 4k is roughly half on the same sensor). And yeah, was thinking it's 1/4 total pixel resolution... 4k = ~9mp, 8k = ~36mp, type thing. Regardless, I still don't know which mirrorless I was thinking had virtually nonexistent RS... again, maybe it was the 4k/s35 crop on the a1 with IBIS on...

Anyway, back on topic, actively cooled is fine by me (presuming it isn't audible outside of ~1m)... Better than overheating like the a7s3 and a1 apparently do. I've always been impressed with Sony's DR (claims and usable) and at the very least the FX3 will have 10bit/422, if not internal raw (fingers crossed), so it'll probably be fine there. Would be nice if, as a CineAlta/FX camera, you could actually turn off internal sharpening/NR.

I'm also intrigued by the rumoured price; isn't that the same as the a7s3? Yet it doesn't overheat and might have a few more cinema-centric bells and whistles? What's the catch?
 
Mike P. said:
I'm also intrigued by the rumoured price; isn't that the same as the a7s3? Yet it doesn't overheat and might have a few more cinema-centric bells and whistles? What's the catch?
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The catch is that it's pretty much made for cinema. If you want to use it for stills, you can, but you're on your own. Notice that there's no EVF.
 
If it has internal NDs, or global shutter... or both, then I’m interested. But if it’s just a rehoused A7S3... sans the excellent EVF, then I have little use for it.
 
A7S3 is full frame, though? Also there has to be something different... Maybe just the cooling and ditching the EVF (which I didn't even notice until you mentioned it.)

Was the a7s3 also CFE? While fleeting, I'm still kinda hoping it has a raw option or 8k or something that makes it a clear choice over the a7s3 (for motion), otherwise why bother?
 
Andrew Dease said:
What a bummer that all I've seen of Komodo is people not knowing why its so grainy on the FB user groups.

Seriously where is the good Komodo footage? Maybe I've seen 3 videos that sort of sold it?


The rest is horrendous and looks like filtration is on or "vintage" lenses are used, no matter what. Why?


Seriously a bummer I hope owners start making some good footage with it.

I hope red as a brand steps back up.
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Maybe because the cost of Komodo makes it easier for people who can't afford a DSMC2 to start using a Red camera, which means a lot more people using it, which in turn means the percentage of bad photographers and cinematographers go up. There's plenty of really great artists working with Komodo, but they won't put all their stuff up on the Komodo FB page, because they are busy actually creating stuff for the purpose of showing it in channels not focused on camera and tech, but as a work of art or piece that should be the main focus, not the camera, or they are bound by releases as commercials or published material by other owners of that material.

Generally, the best stuff is made by people who just don't give a shit about community bragging and social media outputs. Most things put up usually focus either on a technical breakdown or tutorial that does not have any demand on being artistically good, or it's people who are more focused on posing with the camera in hand instead of creating something worth a damn.

As it is now, too many people bought Komodo with the cliché mentality of tech being the key to the craft instead of their knowledge. Far too many people have zero knowledge in creative lighting, composition, storytelling or any talent outside of the gear they bought. And then they're overwhelmed by the amount of knowledge you need to handle a true cinema camera compared to the AF, in-camera processing that video systems like Sony and Canon put out. This is why we see so many sell their cameras because it "wasn't for them".

There has to be a reality check for people when it comes to buying tech. Most cameras today produce good enough images, far more capable than there are people capable of harnessing that capability. It doesn't matter if it's a Sony, Canon, Red, Arri in the hands of people who don't have knowledge in cinematography and photography, it will still look like shit. I've seen Arri LF material that looks like crappy video from 15 years ago, because the people behind the wheels didn't know anything about the creative side or how to handle the camera correctly.

What is it you need to be sold on? That the camera is "good enough"? For what exactly? What output do you have that demands something far more capable than Komodo? Or Sony or Canon for that matter?

I've said this many times on this forum. If you can't make good-looking images with Komodo, then it's not the camera that's the problem. People just want more and more and more without being able to handle what they already got. Personally, I don't need more than a Komodo for my work and I will probably not need anything else for a long time. Maybe if there are some revolutionary functions coming, but in terms of the image... I can do HDR 4K deliveries with a good color science easily, why do I need more than that? Why would anyone need more than that?
 
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