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Sony F3, Red contender?

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Sanjin Jukic said:
But don't forget that you can rent or even buy Canon HJ15ex8.5B with Vari-Angle Prism Image Stabilizer (VAP-IS) technology for $34,800.00 and with 2/3 to 4/3 adapter run in teleconverter mode at GH2
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A 2/3 lens cannot cover the frame of 4/3 format and even if it could it would have lost half the telephoto reach.

The F3 is ideal for those who use HDCAM and HDCAMSR cameras as a second camera and for steadicam use, so I see a lot of interest from rental houses.

Its a RED ONE alternative for those who don't like the RAW workflow and value Sony's worldwide serviceability.

I think the main reason it is considerably more expensive than AF101 is its exclusive sensor, compared to Panasonic's DSLR sensor. (huge economies of scale for Panny here).

I guess in the Nov 17th announcement there will be a second camera introduced (if you notice in the red cloth picture, it seems there is a additional camera completely draped). Probably a pro version NEX 10 more directly competing with AF101.
 
esp said:
A 2/3 lens cannot cover the frame of 4/3 format and even if it could it would have lost half the telephoto reach.
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The GH2 has a 1920x1080 pixel windowed mode that should fit well with 2/3" format lenses and since no line skipping or binning is required it should be free of typical dSLR artifacts.

There's a lot to like about what panasonic has done with these very inexpensive cameras. GH2 with the 14-140 kit lens (which is very video oriented - stepless iris, silent, video-type OIS) is probably the best bang for the buck anywhere in the video world.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
What's interesting about this cam is that you can get a servo 35mm zoom lens for 7K more. Add a $3K Nanon, and you have an awesome ENG cam with much nicer pic quality than an AF100 in terms of dynamic range. Servo 35 zooms are very, very expensive. It's like they're giving you the body for free, if the lens is any good.

Is MX, let alone Epic, way way better for cinema applications? YES. But for ENG this will be a really good option, I think.
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Why on earth would you use an S35 size sensor for ENG? There are plenty of 2/3", 1/2" and 1/3" cameras out there that handle that role so much better than any S35 sized sensor simply because the operator can effectively achieve critical focus. Until facial recognition focus tracking is included (and even then it better read my mind) then deeper DOF cameras will be the preferred tool for ENG.
 
Evin Grant said:
Why on earth would you use an S35 size sensor for ENG? There are plenty of 2/3", 1/2" and 1/3" cameras out there that handle that role so much better than any S35 sized sensor simply because the operator can effectively achieve critical focus. Until facial recognition focus tracking is included (and even then it better read my mind) then deeper DOF cameras will be the preferred tool for ENG.
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No, not true. Maybe for news (full-on old-school ENG), but for run and gun docos you want to be able to zoom quickly and move quickly, and yet sometimes create fun compositions with shallow DOF. Although, don't get me wrong, I hate it, the 5D has been used for this by journalists in Afghanistan. At F11 you have plenty of DOF, even at f8, on an s35 rig if you're even remotely good at focus. At ISO 800 that's totally workable.

BTW - I meant to type Nano, not Nanon
 
Pawel Achtel said:
Huh? From my experience Sony has very poor service despite having many service centres.
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Not everywhere. I wish RED had a service center in the class of Sony's here in Cologne.
 
Uli Plank said:
Not everywhere. I wish RED had a service center in the class of Sony's here in Cologne.
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Sony Deutschland is a pretty strong and powerful.

They built a huge Sony Centre building by a German-American architect Helmut Jahn at Potsdamer Platz that is a famous historical center at the city of Berlin

where is also the main cinema hall of Berlinale Film Festival (CineStar Original / CineStar IMAX 3D and Deutsche Kinemathek).

SonyCenter Berlin>>>

Also must read:

"Insiders say Sony will be paid less than 600 million euros for the building that originally cost the Japanese company 750 million euros in the late 1990s"

Berlin's Sony Center Sells for Bargain Price>>>

Btw, RED should take Sony as a serious competitor whatever they think who or what Sony is.

_DSC9760.jpg.crop_display.jpg

395px-SonyCenterAtNight.jpg

800px-Berlin-Sony_Center-1.jpg

800px-Berlin-Sony_Center-2.jpg

Sony Centre building by a German-American architect Helmut Jahn at Potsdamer Platz that is a famous historical center at the city of Berlin.
 
Also:

"Sony has developed "Super 35mm equivalent" CMOS sensor for the professional Digital Cinema camcorder line.
The "Super 35mm" array size is stated as 1.7-inch type, with diagonal of 27.1mm.
The sensor is capable to deliver 1080p60 HD video and relies on column-parallel ADC architecture.
Its pixel size is said to be 4 times bigger than that of DSLRs providing SNR of 63dB.

This is the first time Sony's digital cinema line uses CMOS image sensor. The previous generations relied on CCDs."

LINK>>>

Sony+35mm+Video+Sensor+8ido1800000b3k7f.jpg
 
Evin Grant said:
Why on earth would you use an S35 size sensor for ENG? There are plenty of 2/3", 1/2" and 1/3" cameras out there that handle that role so much better than any S35 sized sensor simply because the operator can effectively achieve critical focus. Until facial recognition focus tracking is included (and even then it better read my mind) then deeper DOF cameras will be the preferred tool for ENG.
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That's thinking like a DP, not a producer. or client. They want the look and don't care if the crew has to suffer to achieve it. That's the job, and it keeps larger sensor cameras in business.

Technical logic says that 2/3" should have a much larger role than it currently does. This is a fact of the industry right now. Trends could change, but this is certainly what we're seeing now.
 
Comparing the F3 and RED is comparing apples and oranges.

Sure they both have PL mounts and CMOS s35 sensors, but it basically stops there.

Either way, the RED is going to give you the better image with more information and flexibility, but the F3 can probably come out of your bag ready to fire faster. I don't think major features are going to be shot with the F3, but I bet a ton of web and television content will. I also like that its a digital video camera designed to do digital video. I love the 7D's as much as the next guy, but sometimes they are so frustrating. A non line skipping, aliasing, non h.264 etc camera appeals to me for sure.

If I have the option I would pick the RED all day every day, but I can certainly see where the F3 would be useful.
 
Mitch Gross said:
That's thinking like a DP, not a producer. or client. They want the look and don't care if the crew has to suffer to achieve it. That's the job, and it keeps larger sensor cameras in business.

Technical logic says that 2/3" should have a much larger role than it currently does. This is a fact of the industry right now. Trends could change, but this is certainly what we're seeing now.
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On this note I'd like to vent a little on what I consider the plundering of the "Cinematic Look" for just about every type of production imaginable, even if it doesn't require or even serve the creative purpose of the piece. I'm really fed up with super shallow DOF ENG and EFP pieces, yes you got a 5D, yes it looks cool. Now stop fiddling with the focus and frame a fucking shot!

Yes, I want people to have access to all the creative tools they can but, please, please, please have some respect for your's viewers retinas. :rant:
 
PatC said:
Comparing the F3 and RED is comparing apples and oranges.

Sure they both have PL mounts and CMOS s35 sensors, but it basically stops there.
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Your point would make all the sense if/when Sony or Panasonic -- even more agressively as far as 2/3" sensor size also concerns, are both clearly targeting their S35mm product or alike for the same price range where the RED customer and company's basis has always been located* :-)

* The Epic's US$28,000 range is a step up, not where RED ONE found first its place; not very recommendable anymore if announced as of November 2010 IMHO.
 
Mitch Gross said:
That's thinking like a DP, not a producer. or client. They want the look and don't care if the crew has to suffer to achieve it. That's the job, and it keeps larger sensor cameras in business.

Technical logic says that 2/3" should have a much larger role than it currently does. This is a fact of the industry right now. Trends could change, but this is certainly what we're seeing now.
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I'd guess 2/3" will come back around once the "full frame" fad slows and everyone gets they're fill of it. Its almost the perfect amount of depth and control for anything run and gun. Wide open (and a bit of focal length) you can get things to fall off nicely, add a bit of stop and you can follow focus with reasonable amount of skill level. Plus a lot of great (and fast) zooms out there ready to work.

I for one... am happy with more options coming our way. Its been either a Red or a DSLR in the "full frame" arena (in my world) for some time now, and I cant wait to see some other options showing up, be-it the new Panasonic 100, or the Sony F3. I'd be happy with at least 2 more solid contenders in this area, anything to get us away from these silly DSLR's! I'm really sick of these cameras and all the problems associated with trying to make them work like a motion camera. Please lets move on ASAP!

Bring it on... more camera's, and more competition.
 
I have been focused all along on the 2/3 Scarlet. Somehow the F3 announcement has made ma shift my attention to the S35 Scarlet. Is this because it feels that producers will be looking at nothing less than 35mm digital recording in the near future. The more I think about it, 2/3 makes more sense to me as an ENG/TV Doc cameraman, but knowing my clients, I can already forsee their cravings. I am very confused.
 
Can't see why anyone would buy the Sony F3 when the Panasonic AG-AF100 is a third of the price and appears to offer virtually the same spec.

I think the Panasonic makes a great purchase until Epic and Scarlet starts shipping...it should pay for itself very quickly!

We're getting one as soon as they ship to use on a documentary we're starting in December...anyone else picking up a Panny :biggrin:

Scott
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
DOA.
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What´s the point of this cam? Is it a Crashcam?
Is it meant for the Indie market? - Sorry Sony, Canon owns most of it already.
A S35 sensor with yet another questionable codec for 16k? (No RAW of course.)
A PL mount, just to make sure it´s `professional´. Come on, how much marketing can we take?
They should have put their consumer DSLR mount on it, PL adapters are easy to get.
Aimed at a time-slot from Jan `11 - April `11 or so.
Once Scarlet starts shipping, things are going to be somewhat quiet with this puppy.
 
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