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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Something New....

Yes, my hopes of the near future is both cameras work together and accessories that work between them well. Now we just need power solutions that bring the cameras together in harmony.

Sanjin Jukic said:
I don't get it why some people are talking Epic on this tread that is about R1-MX has got SSD 1.8" slot.

What does it mean???

One more new improvement of R1 modular design and possible new recording option...????

I tried to get one of possible answers but lost in the noise that is just pretty high here.
Click to expand...
 
I think my biggest problem is the proprietary system. I have no problem with RED making SSDs available. I actually think it's quite a wonderful solution but I don't like the fact that it has to be RED SSDs only.

So many companies make you buy their products at their premium. I understand this from a financial standpoint but as a consumer it's really frustrating especially when the company stops making the device that works with their product but no one can come in and fill this gap.

Maybe RED SSDs are superior because RED just knows exactly what they are doing but is there really no hope for third party SSDs as well? RED makes really nice lenses but it'd be pretty frustrating if that was the ONLY option for their cameras.

It also means that as technology improves and SSD prices drop, RED will have no incentive to lower their prices other than out of the kindness of their hearts. I like to believe the best about RED so maybe that will be the case.

I think options and competition are healthy for a marketplace that is beneficial to both companies and their customers. Hopefully I'm completely wrong and we'll see other SSD options as time goes by but for now I'm a bit disheartened.
 
Stronz Vanderploeg said:
I think my biggest problem is the proprietary system. I have no problem with RED making SSDs available. I actually think it's quite a wonderful solution but I don't like the fact that it has to be RED SSDs only.

So many companies make you buy their products at their premium. I understand this from a financial standpoint but as a consumer it's really frustrating especially when the company stops making the device that works with their product but no one can come in and fill this gap.

Maybe RED SSDs are superior because RED just knows exactly what they are doing but is there really no hope for third party SSDs as well? RED makes really nice lenses but it'd be pretty frustrating if that was the ONLY option for their cameras.

It also means that as technology improves and SSD prices drop, RED will have no incentive to lower their prices other than out of the kindness of their hearts. I like to believe the best about RED so maybe that will be the case.

I think options and competition are healthy for a marketplace that is beneficial to both companies and their customers. Hopefully I'm completely wrong and we'll see other SSD options as time goes by but for now I'm a bit disheartened.
Click to expand...

Like it or not, the Epic is competing with cameras like the Alexia. It is doing so at a steep discount. They are going to have to make up revenue somewhere. When RED started, they intended to let you buy "Off the shelf" products for media, but the reality of business and cost made that go away.

I do not see RED as a greedy company, but I do see them as needing to be self-sustaining.. Even Jim's money will not last forever.

We all need to remind ourselves that EPIC is NOT replacement for the RED ONE. It's a step up. A FULL STEP. So it's understandable that costs will reflect that..

It's gonna hurt a little.. Already does.

Jay
 
Except Jay, remember, we are in Moore's Law territory now! A camera/media/device should always trend to be twice as good for the same price, or cheaper. Unlike say, the LCD market, we have not yet hit the plateue of tech prices.
 
Jay,

R1-MX is already pretty good competing with Alexa.

EPIC is a several steps forward in advance from both above mentioned cameras.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
We all need to remind ourselves that EPIC is NOT replacement for the RED ONE. It's a step up. A FULL STEP. So it's understandable that costs will reflect that.
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You hit the nail on the head, Jay. The real replacement for the RED ONE is, in my opinion, the S35 Scarlet.

Which begs the question: Can 16GB CF cards be used on the S35 Scarlet? If so, at what frame rates & image sizes?
 
Shawn Nelson said:
Except Jay, remember, we are in Moore's Law territory now! A camera/media/device should always trend to be twice as good for the same price, or cheaper. Unlike say, the LCD market, we have not yet hit the plateue of tech prices.
Click to expand...

Not sure how this applies to custom internal hardware or media Shawn, as there is less competition to drive down costs.

Jay
 
I think solid reliability, data integrity, and reputation drive Red's preference for proprietary certified media, not greed or price. The same is true of other camera systems that also use proprietary media.
There is no way to certify off the shelf commercial media when real world performance can vary significantly from drive to drive, much less across multiple brands and models that can change parts and suppliers with every production run. How would you ever know that the bargain SSD you picked up at Staples was capable of repeated sustained write cycles to capacity at the kind of data rates an Epic will require?
Moore's law doesn't govern radical differences in QC costs required to fully test and certify each drive for reliability and performance in such a demanding application.
 
I think everyone is bringing up good points. I think Jay and Shawn's concerns/surprise is completely valid. For a lot of us who are independent producers, DPs, DITs, etc. in this economy you have to look at your bottom line and sometimes we can't predict costs associated with doing business. I read these guys as saying, okay that's more than I anticipated and now I have to figure out how to make it happen.

We are all in different markets, financial positions, etc. What makes sense for one person, might seem outlandish to another. This is the RED world. There are people working with the camera who were barely able to scrape up enough money for a bare bones system all the way up to Hollywood elite clients. RED covers a lot of ground. I'm sure it makes pricing strategy a bit tricky.

As far as I'm concerned no one should get flamed for asking questions in a professional manner, trying to understand why decisions have been made, etc. That's good business sense. And RED has usually been very open about why they do things. It's a good back and forth.

So, with that in mind, hopefully we can all agree that opinions about this pricing structure will vary but at the end of the day, RED has to set a price that makes sense to them and perhaps based on supply/demand those price points will fluctuate in the future. For now, we have a fairly complete roadmap of where they are heading with media. RED Drives and RED-RAM are out. CF will still be around, but 16GB MIGHT be the end of the line. SSD is the future. It's expensive to get in, but the cost per GB is actually lower than CF once you are in. The form factor makes a lot of sense.
 
Someone please help me understand this...I'm a little confused after weeding through the opinions versus information:

We get the module and we get the SSD's...got it. But is the only way to get the footage off the SSD's by using a proprietary RED Station? I thought I saw Jarred say something about Firewire, but am not sure. If we have to have a RED Station, that is a bummer because I really like having one that STAYS at a downloading station back at the studio AND of course, you need one to take in the field. So...I'm hoping I'm wrong here because now I have to factor in the cost of 2 RED Stations?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks!

Kevin
 
Kevin Wild said:
We get the module and we get the SSD's...got it. But is the only way to get the footage off the SSD's by using a proprietary RED Station?
Click to expand...

The Red Station is, essentially, the card reader for the RED SSD. So, yes, you need two if you want to leave one at the studio and have one in the field.
 
Time and technology march on....

I would think The New SSD would maintain The same Lemo E-Sata cable as the old SSD and 320/640's..

The 120 Gig Proto-type SSD I purchased from Red two years ago has been rock solid all the way around.

It's great to have options and modular technology to change parts out as technology allows....pushing the technology envelope is what Red is about.

I may decide to upgrade sensors or media at any time as it makes sense to my Business model and client demand. I like having the choice...thanks for making upgrade programs available on a modular level.

With over 8,000 Red One cameras worldwide, old and new media storage will retain value!

Dave
 
Pascal Scheffers said:
The Red Station is, essentially, the card reader for the RED SSD. So, yes, you need two if you want to leave one at the studio and have one in the field.
Click to expand...

And that's one of the other hard-to-swallow things that I really hope Red addresses. It's going to cost $500 per ability to download these SSD? On Red CF, i could buy a nice FW800 CF Lexar reader for under $100. Shit, if I get desperate, I can go to Walmart and buy a $15 reader and it'd work for me. The RedDrive had the connectors on it, so no reader at all necessary. So the new extra $1000 to get two readers is another ouch :emote_whack:
 
Interesting media developments. Will those of us that are using Redraid drives still be able to use them on the Epic at the lower rates? (I know higher rates won't be supported). In the meantime will Epic still have the Lemo connections to allow us to use the drives? And the power? I was planning to continue to use a lot of my existing kit.
 
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