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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Something New....

Rats! I just bought a spare 16GB CF :(

Thank you RED team for coming up with this. SSD is long overdue and the fact it will work on Epic is peace-of-mind for me. Honestly cannot wait to replace the CF module.

I was gonna say if there was any chance it can still be slightly lower, but then looked at the cost of a Sony 32GB SxS card to be $800 :D
 
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Paul Nordin said:
Sounds like a kludge to get around budget issues. Those are legitimate, but I'd think this would be a good candidate for a 3rd party solution...not Red. Likely there will be many 3rd party work-arounds...
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:thumbup: Well, in all honesty, not just budget issues but availability. We're on the other side of the world here and, let's face it, Red has had continuing stock issues on much of their stock inventory. I'd really like to be able to send a runner to a local computer store for a replacement SSD drive in the event of on-set failure. SSD's are unlikely to be too restrictive in terms of speed - Jarred seemed to indicate the main problem is the quality of the connectors. Then simple. Make and sell adaptors that can take the heat and allow us to screw them onto our own SSD drives. BTW, I'm more than happy to spend on Red SSD's to get 2.5:1 and Redcode 42 @ 125fps. But an over the counter option might just allow you to get your shooting done, even if it's a a restricted frame rate.

The problem with leaving it to a third party to build an adaptor is that adaptor will need to be a SATA plug too. The adaptor might need to be a more robust standard, and that would mean allowance for the adaptor in the adaptor.
 
it's nice that the rear SSD module is still available for $1,500.00 but NOW I DON'T WANT IT!! I mean come on... You put a super cool SSD drive on the side of the Epic taking up little or no room, and massive record time.

Yes it's expensive (to me) but DAMN.. It's a must have for the package that's for sure.

I'm working on a way to pick up the reader, 2 128gb and 1 64GB as a spare.

This will shorten the Epic since all I'll have on a "full load" will be the battery, and pro I/O box.

I may be a little bummed about the price, but I'm damn glad they made the product.

Jay
 
R3D Data Manager

R3D Data Manager

Now that these are "wicked fast" anyone have any idea the speed changes when using R3D data manager? I know the source verify process will now be faster. But anything besides that? Still any bottlenecks?
 
Sorry if it was answered, are there plans to release a slower but higher capacity 2.5" SSD or alternative media for long take recordings, like concerts?
 
Pawel Achtel said:
Sorry if it was answered, are the plans to release a slower but higher capacity 2.5" SSD or alternative media for long take recordings, like concerts?
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I've read this entire thread and no, it has not been answered. I think what a lot of us, especially future Scarlet fixed owners who are moving UP from HVX200, etc., are hoping for is exactly this. We don't need the fastest media - at least I don't, most of the time - so it would be nice to use a less-than-state-of-the-art but adequate third party ssd with a third party or RED adapter. SSD's are getting faster and cheaper all the time, too, so an adapter would allow me to upgrade as technology and budget advance.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
This is a two pronged event:
1: The REMOVAL of the RED Drive from the picture
2: The increase in cost to move to SSDs
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I don't understand why we care if the RED drive is discontinued. The drives will still work with the new cameras, right? Are you thinking, if you only have one drive and it fails, you have to buy a SSD package? But you'd have to buy a new drive package anyways, right?

Stronz Vanderploeg said:
I think my biggest problem is the proprietary system. I have no problem with RED making SSDs available. I actually think it's quite a wonderful solution but I don't like the fact that it has to be RED SSDs only.
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I see where you're coming from, and I'm usually with you. I'll use cheap handheld support systems (sacrifice a little comfort, who cares), cheap matte boxes (although, jammed filter trays can get annoying), cheap follow-focuses (it's just a couple gears! If it turns, I'm happy.) But media is something I don't mess with. From what I understand, Red media is bulletproof. Certainly, no Red media has ever failed on me. Sometimes, drives will give you an audio fault error and ruin a take, but I've never finished a day of shooting and found that my footage is inaccessible. OTOH, I've shot DSLR stuff on a Transcend card (Sandisk has always worked fine) and had the card fail just after it's all been copied to my hard drive. That's what you get when you pay half the price of Sandisk.

David Rasberry said:
I think solid reliability, data integrity, and reputation drive Red's preference for proprietary certified media, not greed or price. The same is true of other camera systems that also use proprietary media.
There is no way to certify off the shelf commercial media when real world performance can vary significantly from drive to drive, much less across multiple brands and models that can change parts and suppliers with every production run. How would you ever know that the bargain SSD you picked up at Staples was capable of repeated sustained write cycles to capacity at the kind of data rates an Epic will require?
Moore's law doesn't govern radical differences in QC costs required to fully test and certify each drive for reliability and performance in such a demanding application.
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100% agree. I'd also like to add, let's say someone uses cheap media in a Red camera on a high-profile set. The media fails and footage is lost. The producers only hear, "The media failed and the footage is lost," and they think, "RED is unreliable." And they spread the word. I agree with RED in taking that whole thing out of the equation. I'd do the same in their place.

Paul Leeming said:
Either that or larger RAID0/1/5 (etc) arrays which can take advantage of the high throughput.
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I'm pretty sure RAID 0 and 0+1 are the only ones with higher write throughput. RAID 1 is mirrored (kind of like an automatic backup), so you get increased read but not write, and with RAID 5, write is slower, but read is a bit faster (#of of disks - 1).

I think for DIT work, RAID 0+1 is the way to go. 0 is way too dangerous, 0+1 has the same drawbacks as 1 (100% space overhead), but offers 4x read and 2x write. 5 offers better capacity, but worse performance.

Here's a good page on it: http://www.z-a-recovery.com/art-raid.htm

Actually, personally, I'm happy with backing up to a few different external hard drives, ideally of different manufacturers. A RAID controller can always go, and then you're hosed. And you can send different drives to different places. A RAID 6 array with 2-drive failure capacity is no good in a car accident. Or a power surge (good surge protectors are key, of course).

Paul Leeming said:
I foresee a lot of 4x 1TB 2.5" laptop drive arrays in the near future for professional Data Wranglers who want portability and secure backups without breaking the bank on large SSDs....
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2108032&cm_re=synology-_-22-108-032-_-Product
 
Bravo, RED!

Loving the upgrade options to SSD on the R1! Fantastic that we can upgrade so much of the camera after all of this time.

Best!

ATF
 
Also i think some may be forgetting how quickly this new media will get chewed up on EPIC at a 2.5:1 compression ratio. I havn't the urge to sit down and do the exact maths for the EPIC but at a rough 4 times the data this would mean a 64gb is like a 16gb CF card on the Red One and a touch over 8 minutes a SSD card...correct me please if i am wrong as i am just presuming...very roughly. If these very very loose assumptions are right, this means the whopping 256gb SSD will last somewhere around 30-35 minutes at US$3200! Bloody hell...if this is right were going to need at least 4 of these 256gb SSD cards, that US$12800...oh my.
 
Mike Gross said:
Most people I guess would shoot 5:1.
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I think MOST will use 10:1 for TV and DVD because Graeme and team's 10:1 Wavelet Compression is sexy as hell, and with a 4K FULL Debayer (5K in EPIC case) the results are stunning. Very few people need to shoot 5:1 much less 2.5:1
 
The way I understand it the Epic will offer several options for data rates. If you are overcranking, doing plate work that needs substantial post processing, etc you may find yourself burning media like kindling - fair enough. That said, over the last 3 years working with RedCode files I can safely say that I fully expect to be able to shoot at data rates of 50MB/sec or less for most material with no fears. If a particular project requires high data rates just rent a box full of RED 1.8" SSDs and fire away - the rest of the time you should be fine with the capacities being offered.

FWIW I do trust that as the prices for SSDs fall we will see RED offer larger capacities for lower prices, though that may be a couple years off. Heck, even P2 finally got cheaper, though it took a lot longer than Panny told us in the beginning - wish I had taken a photo of the big chart in the Panny booth at NAB in '05 or '06 where, IIRC, they forecast 64GB cards would be out by '08 :devil:

Cheers - #19
 
Sam Winzar said:
I thought I'd post some numbers I went through to get a better idea of the value of the new media options. A lot of people have been have been going on about the price per gigabyte, but what I really care about is the price for the amount of media required for a day of shooting.
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Why does everybody keep forgetting to monetize "faster offloads times" DIT's that we hire are NOT cheap $50 to $60/hr on most shoots. Thats a lot of money over a year saved, and a well rested, less stressed DIT means a more reliable one imho. Less or zero costly "human" errors.

Sam Winzar said:
With the SSD option it does give me the benefit of being all solid state and lightning fast download speeds that should speed up onset workflow. Plus, it looks like this is the media I need if I want to get the full value out of my Epic.
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These are the two single most important features to consider for media purchases for RED. Time = $ folks
and higher quality requires better and faster media. RED is not shooting for today, and yes, it may hit the pocketbook
in the short term, but my $ is on it saving me a ton in the future.
 
Shawn Nelson said:
Jay, Matthew,
I agree with what you're saying.



Tim, no one is 'bitching' about price. This is a forum where Red invites feedback. It's legitimate feedback to go 'whoa, this is going to hurt'. The costs you have outlined are not bad at all. The thing that hurts is the fact that it'll cost you $2000 to get the point where you can even begint to buy the media ($1500 Red One SSD Module + $500 Red proprietary SSD downloading).
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I really don't get all you guys. Other camera companies don't even give you the ability to capture at maximum resolution and color depth out of the box, while RED GIVES YOU the CF module with both the RED One, Scarlet and Epic. There may be a marginal frame rate hit with CF compared to SSD (full figures have not been confirmed yet) but you will certainly still be able to hit 100-120 fps with CF and do so at full resolution. Just use CF for a few jobs until you can afford to shell out to buy the SSD add-on, or god forbid, rent it when you need the extra fps. Not having the SSD module is not going to affect whether you can do your work with the camera.
 
I still am surprised the Alexa modules works out to $7400.
Really!!??

$7400 to SxS?
 
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