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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Some Audio Testing Results

digitalfx said:
I reported the DC offset to Red last week, the hiss is gone on my camera w/ Build 13 if I only enable CH1 and CH2.
Do you have all 4 channels enabled? Try enabling only the channels you are recording to and you should lose the hiss.
Click to expand...

This might explain why I don't recall hearing this much hiss on Tonaci's clips of the beauty contestants. digitalfx, could you upload some audio only samples of recordings done using the camera's mic pres with only channels 1 and 2 enabled?

ETA: Nevermind, I guess kenn michael's last post makes this moot.
 
kenn michael said:
The preamps are unbelievably noisy. I have my preamps set at 20db and the hiss is still very much there. Audio is clean with the line inputs as eclaire has pointed out.

It'll be interesting to see if they can get rid of the hiss as another software fix instead of swapping out the hardware.

I'm a post audio mixer as well, and I'd call this amount of hiss disastrous on a mix stage.
Click to expand...


Kenn, as a audio mixer, how do you rate the RED fan noise? Is anything above Silent usable?
 
One additional question. When you were using the 302 mixer, was there a high pass filter (low cut) engaged? There is a noticeable shift in LF portion of the noise spectrum compared to the NGSX2 mixer
Click to expand...

No, the low cut was set to neutral on both mixers. I tried to level each one of them out to match as best I could.
 
Hello xdissolve,

Thanks for the clarification on the configuration. The levels were in fact fairly close, it was the change in the LF characteristics that is of interest to me. Can you please give me the exact brand and model information on both mixers?

Thanks,

Kevin Halverson
 
Finner said:
Can you choose to set all four channels of audio in the camera to record from one of the inputs?

Advantage here is you can set someones lav mic or the boom to record on 4 channels and set each channel at a different level. That way if the subject gets quieter or louder then expected you will still likely have a clean good level recording on at least one of the channels and can select in post. I have used this system very successfully before on other cameras and it will be great if you can do it with the red.
Click to expand...

that is an awesome idea!
________
K1200gt
 
kenn michael said:
I only have CH1 enabled. Still hissy.
Click to expand...

Have you terminated the enabled inputs or are you leaving the inputs open/unconnected?

If you're leaving them unconnected (unterminated, i.e. seeing an infinite impedance) then the test is not an accurate one, and the hiss you're hearing will likely be much lower in level when you connect a microphone.

For a more informative result, try the hiss test again with a mini-XLR that has 200 Ohm resistors across pins 1 & 2 and pins 1 & 3 plugged into the enabled input.
 
For Cine Users:

I think we can all agree that sound is 50% of the experience, right?

I think we can all agree that you don't know what bad sound is until it's ruined your film, right? Until you're sitting in post and go, "What the...?"

I personally think a properly trained sound engineer is just as important as having a freakin' lens. It literally pains me to hear filmmakers (not ENG folk) suggest they can't "afford" a sound engineer / mixer.

Let's give these guys at RED a break while they work. I mean, it's not like we sound recordists haven't been recording audio to separate media for the last 70 decades!

I never ever ever record location audio ONLY to an HVX or a DVX, and I will never record audio ONLY to a RED - I'm sorry, but I like my ultra high-resolution digital capabilities...and I adore a good ol' Nagra when it's called for (a flavor RED just simply can't touch).

We love the guys at RED - let's give 'em a break while they work on a fix. Or just record audio in the tried, true, and (opinion) better manner :)

Oh, by the way, FINNER, your redundant channel idea is excellent. Many years ago, when I was a recording intern, an engineer showed me that trick, and lemme tell ya: It works wonders! Just recently finished recording a teen horror film (lots of whispers and screaming), and it covered all the bases! :)

Cheers!

P.S. All the ENG / Pro-sumer users on here. Mount any mic to your tape-based video camera and tell me if you can hear a 12-14K "ringing" emanating from the moving parts of your camera. Also, tell me your highest cost Lectro wireless unit, properly gain-structured, doesn't have a nice and noisy floor. My heart goes out to ya - ENG style shooting without a sound tech is TOUGH...even with the cleanest signal chain.
 
Oh... This is sad.
I have been happily following red since god know when, and now I am afraid I have to cancel my orders because some guy messed-up the audio-department!?
And to all the people out there feeling superiour because they waste their time on teen-horror movies... well "CONGRATULATIONS"...

Yes, I am an EFP shooter and always will be... I don´t like to shoot adults playing pretend. I prefer real situations, and I expected RED to be able to make high-quality AUDIO-visual recordings of real situations.
All this fuzz about 24bit, without the possibility of making accurate adjustments is just plain silly.
Please make an EFP sound-module with two clean 16bit preamps with pots, limiters and a somewhat advanced softwaredriven agc. Otherwise this camera, seems like its made only for the fancy-pants, playing make-believe in there controlled studio-habitat

THIS F&%$/$&/ - sucks big time.....



All the best eddie
 
Eddie,

Let's calm down a bit, ok? I think we share a little bit of the same disdain for the "teen horror" genre, which provides substantially less than ideal environments for audio recording (read: "not a controlled studio-habitat"). My point was not to flex a superiority muscle, but rather to say we should let this camera develop already. I have more respect for ENG technicians who can get a better product than a lot of studio engineers who bitch about fans and *this* mic or *that* signal chain.

Fact of the matter is, I just came off a film shoot where the producers ditched the RED because they wanted internal audio capabilities; however, we dumped the idea of running a tether to the camera and just went to a DAW. ENG and Cine are two different worlds, and I personally prefer the Cine workflow as an engineer. As an artist, it's more likely you ENG guys will pump out a better product, because - as you say so directly - your subjects aren't "playing pretend."

Didn't mean any disrespect, just have a lot of heart in my profession.

Cheers, mate.
-T
 
I was shocked not finding pots on the camera.... Even my
hvx has them!!!! What gives on this jim? We are pofessionals here this is not acceptable, I will not send my camera back over this but let's get real. This is not professional at all.

Love the camera.
 
I was just looking over the audio forum looking for place to post about this. I guess this is as good as any.

IMO...

Why not just record audio to a CD (like every film/commercial does) and sync it in post?

Sure, it's a little more work... But it's been done like this since the beginning. And it usually produces better results as well.
On a side note, most production audio is only good for dialogue at best... usually.

Just me?
 
obin said:
I was shocked not finding pots on the camera.... Even my
hvx has them!!!! What gives on this jim? We are pofessionals here this is not acceptable,
Click to expand...

The HVX is a prosumer camera. Doesn't compare.

Professionals record audio separately and sync in post. At least in the film world... But a lot who shoot F900 do the same as well. (In my experience.)
 
Anybody got rid of hiss by not using line level?

I mean, if you use phantom power and mike level, will hiss go away?
 
Andrew said:
Anybody got rid of hiss by not using line level?

I mean, if you use phantom power and mike level, will hiss go away?
Click to expand...

If you use external phantom power and mic level you should get a very clean recording (dependent on the level of noise your gear is generating). At least that's my experience.
 
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