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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

So Why RED? Really?

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Kenn

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Been following this camera since I first came upon it in a web page
a couple years ago. Was interested at first until the price was revealed.
For now I'm still on a wait-and-see basis. Seems as when reading
through the other forums there is a lot of folks with some deep pockets
ready to drop 7k,25k, 50k on up at a moments notice of availability.
Steve Jobs place on the polls as the richest is in jearpody I think
if that many people can shell out that kind of money like that on a daily
basis. So my question is why does everyone feel they just got to have a
4K or 5K resolution camera. Is it A: To be like the big boys? or B: Because there really is this high demand for 1080p look-alike alternative? or C: You
got thousands of dollars laying around that you just don't know what to do
with it? or D: You see a "Market" demand for Red One,Scarlet, or Epic
footage? Do you think a consumer can tell the difference between 1080p
and Red Raw footage? I don't think so. Do you think they care what camera was used or do they care about the quality of the script?
These are only questions that I just had to ask,not to start anything.
Why not use your hard earned dollars and purchase a Sony,JVC, or Canon
HD camera. I mean really the quality is not that much different. At least
in the eyes of the uninformed. Thanks for letting me ask these questions.
 
Sony, JVC? Optical quality can't be matched since there are no serious 35mm camera from them that is affordable.

Care to tell me the price tag on a Sony F35?

Why RED? Because it's one inexpensive tool to get Motion RAW. There are others, like the SI-2K or what not.

Do you know that screenwriters and DPs, DITs and whatever work on different steps of the filmmaking process right?

The phrase: "The camera doesn't matter, it's the story" is just a cheap non-sense to shed light on lost amateur wanna-be filmmakers that focus efforts on the wrong direction.

What? The camera matters, it's a choice you make based on the given script, the needs, the aesthetic choices. RED gives you high quality, freedom, and theater distribution resolution.

Imagine if the footage was all jello on the action climax of a Bruce Willis movie, or if the clothes of the handsome protagonist in the romantic climax were flickering because of aliasing.

Superior high quality imaging exists for a reason. Audiences perhaps can't explain the difference... But tell? They're not blind.
 
First of all, when you say "why not use your money and get a Sony, JVC, etc. HD camera..." I'm guessing you are not referring to a $60,000 to $150,000 pro HD camera like the Sony F23, you are referring to prosumer gear, or low-end pro HD gear that nears the $10,000 mark. Most of which use small sensors and many of which record into some sort of HD format like h.264.

So right off the bat, that's one of the main reasons people like the Red camera -- it has a 35mm sensor and records RAW, for the price of a midrange ENG camera instead of a top-of-the-line HD camera from Sony or Panasonic. And that's not really addressing the excellent picture quality that a Red delivers.

So assuming that you have the money to buy a Red One package, it is a lot of quality for your dollar. And assuming you don't have the money to buy a Red One package, then the question is sort of moot.

Now whether it's the best camera for your particular needs, well, it depends on what those needs are. For some, perhaps it's overkill for what they are shooting, I can't say. But there's nothing wrong with more picture quality than you really need IF it's affordable and practical either way.

But you really should be comparing at least camera packages of similar prices, let's say, a Red One package to an ENG HD camera package in the $30,000 range.
 
Kenn, first off: this is a real name forum. You agreed to that when you signed in, but obviously you didn't read it even though it is written in big bold letters. So please follow the instructions at the bottom of my post on how to fix this.

As to your questions:

A: To be like the big boys?

No, we are a small shop but strive to give our customers (and ourselves) the highest possible quality within our financial limits.

B: Because there really is this high demand for 1080p look-alike alternative?

No, you have not done your research if you compare a 4.5k camera to a 1080p camera. And as you might know from the DSLR world, it is more than just about the pixel number.

C: You got thousands of dollars laying around that you just don't know what to do
with it?

I take that as a rhetorical question.

D: You see a "Market" demand for Red One,Scarlet, or Epic footage?

Definately. We also do some stock footage, and knowing that any work that I do now will still be sellable in 10 years is good for one's peace of mind (and pension plans).

D2: Do you think a consumer can tell the difference between 1080p and Red Raw footage?

Yes, I do. They may not see it consciously, but they (for lack of a better word) "feel" it. Call it part of the magic that is moving pictures. (And if it wasn't the case, do you really think producers would bother spending money on the camera department?)



Generally, your post comes across as condescending. I think most, if not all, owners of RED cameras have worked hard to have them, and can not drop $xxxxx dollars at a moment's notice. It is a conscious business decision.
 
I have some cameras, RED, Sony DSR 450 WSP, Sony EX1, Sony EX3, JVC GY HD100, Panasonic HVX200, and guess what, I can't bare shooting with any of these other cameras any more...I tried the other day, the client did not want to spend the money on my RED rental, so I shot with the DSR 450 (it used to be ok...some years ago), but when I got home and when I saw the rushes, man was I disappointed...lucky for me, the client did not like the main actor's performance, and we had to re-shoot, so second time round, I took the RED, even though the client had not paid for it, I just could not bare getting back to the edit and being disappointed in the image, and when I did get back, man did it look good the second time round.

And Kenn, this is a real name forum, try and fix your name....
 
One of the moments that defined what RED is and what these prosumer cams are came when I was editing a few pieces together coming from both RED and EX cameras, along with hvx's and so on for a short reel. And someone walked by me, saw the prosumer cam footage, and complimented and asked who shot that. The second some of the RED footage came up, they asked what movie is that from...

The level of quality is in the CINEMATIC look. You can pixel count all day long, and see who has the biggest sensor all day long. When it comes down to it at the end of the day, the viewer is gonna see it and go, oh that looks nice, or, I wonder what movie or tv show I'm watching.

That's a whole different world, that every indie filmmaker strives for, and what Hollywood is used to.
 
I just finished directing my first serious short film, and we decided to shoot on a Red. To me, the only thing that matters is that I knew with the Red, the picture quality would be superb (theatrical distribution worthy), and I would have the 35mm characteristics it provides at an affordable rental rate. I don't tell people my film was shot on Red, that doesnt interest me, but what does interest me is what happenened the other day.

My Producers sister was watching the edit so far, as she requested to see it, and I thought it would be healthy for someone who is unfamiliar with the story to give me their opinion. After the first few shots she said (she's 18, has NO film or photography knowledge) "what camera thing did you use? It looks beautiful"

Now a few days later, I screened it to my brother and he asked the same thing. Then my mother did, until finally my sister commented "it looks like Narnia!"

I choose Red because I knew it would allow the imagery to do justice to my script, I knew it would help me engage the audience with beautiful visuals. Cinema is primarily an IMAGE BASED art form. The image in terms of composition and quality on both a creative and technical level are absolutely paramount.

This is also not taking into consideration the fact I had instant 35mm quality dailies for viewing and editing at night after every days shooting, meaning we were ready for pickups and reshoots the very next day.

Why did I choose Red? Because it let me, at 22 years of age, achieve moving images such as this:

A002_C040_0214VK0001027.png


A005_C045_02178W0001003.png
 
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Why RED? Jannard, Jarred, Graeme, Stuart, Deanan, Brent, Kelley, Brian, The Bomb squad, etc. etc. etc. and that's just a few of the ones that we even know about.
 
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Thank you Martin, I just wanted to tell it like it was.

People who start these threads clearly havn't done their homework. What Red allows people in my situation to do is truly incredible. It should be respected in every way.

Edit: Haha, just saw your picture. Very true!
 
Martin, could you send me a case of that spray? My first visit to the forums today and what is the first thing I read? This thread. And I read every word too... I feel like I need to close this thread with extreme prejudice.
 
I appreciate the comments. I can see now price wise why The Red may
be a cost savings issue. High end features for less. I get it now.
I have seen a couple of the film clips from the early directors that had
the betas. Not bad, but it looks like it would on a blu-ray disc.
I can't really blame you guys for jumping on the new technology now
so that you can keep up with the times. There has been a lot of movies
that i have seen that I didn't know was made with the RED cameras.
So it appears there are new contenders in the film technology business.
First Red, now Arri. I only hope we can get similar cameras from other
companys at a competitive price. I do some compositing on small projects.
I don't plan on getting left behind the curve and if the Scarlet comes out
as predicted that will be my base price point for a new camera rig.
I hope you take this as a constructive argument and not as a flame.
I really wanted your opinion on what makes this the must have camera
and why you think the world is ready for 4K cinematagraphy.
Moderator sorry about the first name issue. When I signed up it asked for
my name but it was taken. I'll try again.
 
You need to do a lot more research before you purchase a scarlet... your last response has shown that you have very little understanding from a fundamental stand point regarding the whole process... Not trying to insult you and definitely mean no harm, but truthfully your post has made me realize that rather being a troll or posting to be inflammatory, your POV is based more in crucial lack of understanding to the imaging world. Please, Please do a lot of research about imaging before purchasing any camera. for your own sake
 
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