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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Single Take Steadicam Feature to be Shot on RED

Tanner Stauss said:
I'm really considering that. :)
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Hehehe... I know... Unfortunately you'd be limited by size, but if it were a flat shape and secured so it wouldn't move at all it could work... to shave off 0.25lbs. or so hehe :D
Maybe you could justify it by saying that you could have a small light beamed into it from behind to use as a soft on-camera light? :D
hehe... probably not worth the physical nuisance if you plan to do any low angles, at all :P

Seriously though, is there ANY chance you could postpone production and rent Epic-X #0006 or #0007 from OffHollywood? Sensitivity will also be a huge benefit, though nowhere near as mission critical as the weight (~10lbs!?!) you would shave off the rig.

Please have someone do a BTS, even if with a camera phone.

Wish I could help you guys for free on shooting day. This would be a heck of a lot of fun to watch or be a part of!
 
Make custom drive mounts out of Balsa wood and build a gatorfoam mattebox. I've done the mattebox -- saved a few ounces. 100 minutes is a long time, bro. Good luck!
 
thomas-english said:
...No arms are carbon fibre (except maybe some show off panels)...
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No longer true.
http://shop.artemis-hd.de/en/Spring-Arm/Arm-ACT2-/-Carbon/


thomas-english said:
...Power the camera from the sled. I am unsure if the Artemis can handle the hefty 7amp draw from the RED. A lot of sleds can't. You will need a specialized power cable from Marell electronis or some such...
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Newer Steadicam Flyer LE will handle the current
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXJ-ByxvTew About a minute into the video

Newer Artemis HD SE will handle up to 15 amps at 12V
http://shop.artemis-hd.de/en/Camera-Stabilizer-Systems/artemis-EFP-HD-SE/

Otherwise, take Thomas's advice as he's an experienced pro Steadicam/stabiliser op.
 
Wow Eric, Carbon fibre bones! I'm impressed. Do they work? Have you tried that arm? Is it as IsoElastic as your Flyer arm which incidentally I think feels great.

If you could get this down to the weight of a flyer. Which would require you to mount the motors on a dovetail bar closer to the topstage, definitely not a preston (C-Motion) and completely loose the 19mm bar brackets from the top of the camera. It would almost certainly require sending the drive down below. I still think you would be better off loosing the card unit from the side of the camera. A little weight goes a long way. Black wrap or Gatorfoam Matte box. Drive can just be gaffered on to where ever its going. If you could get this down to the weight of a flyer. a 100 minute shot would be a piece of piss. You could do that no problem.

A good way to get a 12v feed into a RED without spending £130 on a cable (like I did) is have someone butcher the cable that came with your charger and pop a 4pin XLR onto the end.

Eric, what part of London do you live in? At some point pop by Hackney and we could try and rig this on your flyer at my studio. I would be intrigued if we could get an Optimo rouge, C-Motion and RED onto a Flyer. If so I might buy one as a running rig. I'm sure we have plenty to talk about as well.
 
I don't see getting a rig that would work on a flyer for this shot. As a 1 shot deal, they are almost certainly going to want video transmission so they can time cues, and very very likely are going to want Iris control. Plus, you are going to need batts that will power the Red and the sled for the whole time, which probably means 3 dionics. The problem with a flyer, is that there is no room to move weight wise. If a problem comes up and there is a simple solution, but you can't do it because of weight, that sucks. I would recommend the MK-V light sled, or possibly a custom rig from MK-V. Say a 1.5 inch post and gimbal, nexus bottom stage, video jbox kind of thing.
Just as important as getting the weight of the rig down, is designing the shot so that you get breaks. For example for a long walk and talk, sit on a doorway dolly and take a break. If you have to be stationary for a few minutes, have the grips fly in a seat for you, or physically support you. Being able to take the stresses off of your body for little periods helps tremendously on longer shots. The nice thing is that on long complicated shots like this, you sort of zen out and don't realize how ungodly horrible it is because youre so focused on hitting your marks, getting the timing right and following the dialog for cues. You realize you basically have to memorize the script right ;-)

Sounds like fun,

Nick
 
Yeah, I realize that getting the power distribution is going to be a challenge. I'm trying to find the best happy medium of weight, functionality and comfort for the rig.

Does anyone know if a Preston or c-motion is lighter when using all three motors? Or would Arri's new motors be better?
 
In fact I have a 1.5inch MK-V post, 3a top stage and MK-V J and D box electronics for sale as they are sitting pretty redundant. You would have to get the J and D box upgraded as currently they can't handle a 7 amp draw but that is very easy. It would be a lightweight setup. All it would need would be a battery hanger from MK-V or custom built.

Nick is probably right. It would be interesting if you could get it all down on a flyer but it may not work for 110 minutes. You could stick 3 batteries on a flyer base using one of these hotswap units from ActionCam or Hawkwood. To be honest I am not saying that the Flyer is a solution but it is definately one worth testing; as I said in my initial post I recomend an MK-V Lite as well. Since this is a big job for you I think its worth testing a few options but accessories wise: C-Motion (3 motors) and modulus transmitter are the lightest.
 
Tilman Büttner was one of the instructors on my steadicam workshop. I remember him telling about the Russian Ark. It was indeed a backbreaking event. Not so much during the shoot, but afterwards. So be sure not to take any steadicam work the first few days after the shoot ! But most off all, I had the impression that he was more worried about the hole coördination. They pre-lighted everything but there were still things to clean up and things to build up, during the shoot. Crew cleaned up the lights a few rooms behind them, and built lights a few rooms in front. I suppose that the crew had a short cut :). Futher more, the director (Alexandr Sokurov) gave instruction during the take to Tilman and to the actors and extra's. I don't know if that is possible in your case. They did 4 takes in total. The first three attempts were all stopped somewhere within the first twenty minutes (5', 10', 20' or something). That meant that they knew the 4th take had to be the one !! Because of the actors, time, extra's .... but above all because of Batteries ! So he also was limited because of electric power. I remembeer he told us that a he was on cable because he had an assistent following him with a backpack frame full of batteries. The film was shot on tape because it was the only media that could shoot a full 89 minutes.

It's a fantastic idea to work on, but as some people already suggested, check if it isn't possible to make some 'hidden cuts'. As usual many thing can go wrong, and it comes in handy in case it doen't work out in one take.
And please, please : try to figure out if it isn't possible to 'dock' invisible at some point while shooting (eg on the dolly). Even a few seconds can make a world of difference ! And don't compromise to much for a light weight. The rig has still to 'feel and react' wright for you so you can concentrate on all the others things like hitting your marks.

Anyway, good luck to the project !http://reduser.net/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif
 
thomas-english said:
Wow Eric, Carbon fibre bones! I'm impressed. Do they work? Have you tried that arm? Is it as IsoElastic as your Flyer arm which incidentally I think feels great...If you could get this down to the weight of a flyer. a 100 minute shot would be a piece of piss. You could do that no problem...Eric, what part of London do you live in? At some point pop by Hackney and we could try and rig this on your flyer at my studio. I would be intrigued if we could get an Optimo rouge, C-Motion and RED onto a Flyer. If so I might buy one as a running rig. I'm sure we have plenty to talk about as well.
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Hi Thomas

I've not seen the new Sachtler carbon fibre boned arms in person, so can't comment on the feel. But Sachtler kit is usually very well made mechanically. See here for some demo footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7McwvP-_TwE
Slightly OTT vimeo ad here, but which shows more of the components:
http://www.vimeo.com/4067812

IF it's like the original Artemis, the arm won't be IsoElastic like the Steadicam ones, but I didn't have any major objections as a newbie using the original Artemis when trying it out in comparison with a Steadicam Ultra rig during my Optex training course, although that was years ago, so hard to remember details about the feel.

I did successfully modify my rig to fly a RED, RED RAID Drive storage (gaffer taped on - so not pretty!), Canon 17-55mm EF-S stills lens, with Birger Impero remote focus, Sennheiser 416 camera mic & Softie on a RED 5" Arm, and RED brick power, and a PAG C50 Cobalt battery as additional counterweight and it works, albeit with an external cable to the RED Pro 7" LCD in place of the Steadicam one. I could replace the PAG with a Redbyte Decimator HD-SDI to SD Composite downconverter, Kramer SD video distribution amplifier and Teletest SD video transmitter for a director's monitor.

I think the newer Flyer LE with 19lb camera load spec might be able to fly your combination, but sadly I only have the original Flyer with a 15lb spec, so a bit doubtful it would work. Happy to give it a try though Thomas! I'm based in SE5 Camberwell, but could come up some time in January, meet up, play with rigs and talk Steadicam over a pint or two! :001_smile:
 
I literally fell asleep while watching "Russian Ark." Before I nodded off, I wanted the thing to end.

Russian Ark: A babbling guy, with great posture, walks through a museum.

Not great drama.

So, does your project warrant this technique? Does it have enough punch to keep people interested for two hours? Or even five minutes?

Is the story worth this monumental effort, and is it anything other than a gimmick to make a little splash?
 
Tanner Stauss said:
Yeah, I realize that getting the power distribution is going to be a challenge. I'm trying to find the best happy medium of weight, functionality and comfort for the rig.

Does anyone know if a Preston or c-motion is lighter when using all three motors? Or would Arri's new motors be better?
Click to expand...

No matter what focus system you use, be sure that the lens is really smooth. If you need to run all power off the same power source (lithium batteries), then a stiff lens will drive the focus-moter power needs up and this could result in too high amp draw for the batteries and they simply shut down.

I'd go for a 7" RED lcd with a long lcd cable going down the post. Also with a long drive cabe you can have the RED drive at the bottom too, together with two batteries you got good counterbalance for the camera:

http://actionproducts.ch/product_info.php?cPath=47_1&products_id=29

Good luck with this project!

PS: and use nothing but a back mounted vest - overall operating effort drops good 50%!!!
 
Joe G. said:
So, does your project warrant this technique? Does it have enough punch to keep people interested for two hours? Or even five minutes?

Is the story worth this monumental effort, and is it anything other than a gimmick to make a little splash?
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Joe, it isn't my decision to make this film the way it is being made, neither is it my position to debate the reasons why. It is my position to perform the technical aspect to the best of my abilities and achieve the goal of the vision. I'm really just looking for technical advice here, thanks.

Brian D. Goff said:
PS: and use nothing but a back mounted vest - overall operating effort drops good 50%!!!
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Thanks Brian,

can you give me an example of a good back mounted vest?
 
Tanner Stauss said:
Ok, yeah, I've used the ActionCam and the vest quite a few times. I didn't know that the side mount was considered a back mount, that makes sense though. I really like the Action Cam, great work with that.
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The "side" mount is the simplified version for lighter weight cameras, but has more or less the same effect - we also have a bracket that is separate and mounted on the back of the vest for the heavier weight cameras.
 
Nicholas van Essen said:
Anyone watch PVC-1? Proof that a feature shot in one take can work wonderfully. I definitely recommend viewing it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PVC-1
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I'd like to check that out Nicholas.


Brian, thanks for that clarification. We're coming close to deciding on what rig is going to be best to use, either way it's going to be a beast. :)

Thanks for all the other suggestions and ideas everyone, it's much appreciated.
 
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