Should RED be using an Adobe CC Upgrade Model?

[Dr. Sassi]

That makes waaaay too much sense. Never happen since it's too linear and solves the problem without 6000 RU posts ;-)

Thanks ZEB (you're too funny -- 6,000 posts, as if that would be all), I change it and then couldn't save the changes. So I deleted it. Since you quoted it, I leave it that way. It is maybe more noise than you like.
===

What I like in your thread is your request of more insider information from first hand. This is certainly a reason why I ordered instantly the two new books -- to support that information flow (even most of it was published for free before)

I would love a monthly subscription of an "technical director news letter". With FAQs and more insights from the RED team. Clarifications of the forums content in a kind of top level reply. I would pay for that.

My best wishes


I know they decide sometimes on the fly, so any preparation might not work.

My idea would have been two pull down menus: (Similar set up as the cinematography tools on their web-site.)

a) What camera do you have.
b) What camera do you want.

As a result you get the individual options and prices. No confusion.

So everyone can get his/her path and investment plan.

 

[Kyle Dones]

"Unconditional" anything is a lazy and dangerous concept my friend. I live by: "Question the Answers"

Zeb, I love you too. Unconditionally.

…I understand that concept…thoroughly…don't insult me again please and thank you.

love

 

[Zeb B]

Zeb, I love you too. Unconditionally.

…I understand that concept…thoroughly…don't insult me again please and thank you.

love

It's not an insult - it's historical fact that when anyone or group trusts things unconditionally . . . bad behavior is the result. As Ronald Reagan said about Russian nuke disarmament in the 1980's: Доверяй, но проверяй!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As6y5eI01XE

 

[Zeb B]

Thanks ZEB (you're too funny -- 6,000 posts, as if that would be all), I change it and then couldn't save the changes. So I deleted it. Since you quoted it, I leave it that way. It is maybe more noise than you like.
===

What I like in your thread is your request of more insider information from first hand. This is certainly a reason why I ordered instantly the two new books -- to support that information flow (even most of it was published for free before)

I would love a monthly subscription of an "technical director news letter". With FAQs and more insights from the RED team. Clarifications of the forums content in a kind of top level reply. I would pay for that.

My best wishes


I know they decide sometimes on the fly, so any preparation might not work.

My idea would have been two pull down menus: (Similar set up as the cinematography tools on their web-site.)

a) What camera do you have.
b) What camera do you want.

As a result you get the individual options and prices. No confusion.

So everyone can get his/her path and investment plan.

Word. Wish our Dr Phil, Kilgroe, Merchant, Brent, Mark OH, Björn, Gunleik, Battistella and a couple other information studs would have an Inner Circle style subscription service where they would sort through the jungle called RED Ownership / Cine Biz and distill the big data pile into actionable information. Would be first to sign up for that. Price is at the CC price of $9.95 and get some sponsors - a freakin cash cow!! (wink wink)

Short of that . . . would like RU to have a feature whereby I could subscribe to individuals regardless of their posts. Kinda like InstaGram or a Smart Folder so I can follow certain folks (like the ones mentioned above plus Jim / Jarred) since that is what I come here for. Like Cable TV . . . 5000 channels with maybe eight I want to watch ;-)

 

[Kyle Dones]

It's not an insult - it's historical fact that when anyone or group trusts things unconditionally . . . bad behavior is the result. As Ronald Reagan said about Russian nuke disarmament in the 1980's: Доверяй, но проверяй!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As6y5eI01XE

ZEB, are you comparing RED to Russia? lol

You can trust, verify, and love unconditionally at the same time, no? Any way, before we get off topic and go into something that needs no debate, I'm pleased with how things get revealed, released and executed at RED. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Zeb B]

ZEB, are you comparing RED to Russia? lol

You can trust, verify, and love unconditionally at the same time, no? Any way, before we get off topic and go into something that needs no debate, I'm pleased with how things get revealed, released and executed at RED. I'll leave it at that.

No . . . I'm saying that I never accept the status quo or information as presented without questioning the source, agenda, facts and then consider potential for improvement. RED is a consumer product company - not a religion.

NAB Weapon Intro was no business school case study on how to capture the hearts and minds of the skeptics while burying your competition ;-)

 

[Kyle Dones]

RED was the answer my religion gave me :attention9ha:…lol jk….not really

 

[Zeb B]

RED was the answer my religion gave me :attention9ha:…lol jk….not really

I think my Karma just ran over your Dogma ;-)

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Word. Wish our Dr Phil, Kilgroe, Merchant, Brent, Mark OH, Björn, Gunleik, Battistella and a couple other information studs would have an Inner Circle style subscription service where they would sort through the jungle called RED Ownership / Cine Biz and distill the big data pile into actionable information. Would be first to sign up for that. Price is at the CC price of $9.95 and get some sponsors - a freakin cash cow!! (wink wink)

Short of that . . . would like RU to have a feature whereby I could subscribe to individuals regardless of their posts. Kinda like InstaGram or a Smart Folder so I can follow certain folks (like the ones mentioned above plus Jim / Jarred) since that is what I come here for. Like Cable TV . . . 5000 channels with maybe eight I want to watch ;-)

While we are asking for forum features...

would like it if the you could jump through a thread using a button like the RED TEAM button; only it jumps from post to post of the person who started the thread.

 

[Dr. Sassi]

Word. Wish our Dr Phil, Kilgroe, Merchant, Brent, Mark OH, Björn, Gunleik, Battistella and a couple other information studs would have an Inner Circle style subscription service where they would sort through the jungle called RED Ownership / Cine Biz and distill the big data pile into actionable information. Would be first to sign up for that. Price is at the CC price of $9.95 and get some sponsors - a freakin cash cow!! (wink wink)

Short of that . . . would like RU to have a feature whereby I could subscribe to individuals regardless of their posts. Kinda like InstaGram or a Smart Folder so I can follow certain folks (like the ones mentioned above plus Jim / Jarred) since that is what I come here for. Like Cable TV . . . 5000 channels with maybe eight I want to watch ;-)

InstaGraeme perhaps? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

I have read a lot here in the past 1,000 days. Often conflicting information. It needs quite some patience to learn here, but it is a good learning, as I was able to see how things can be seen from an un-usual perspective as well -- to say it positively. Good knowledge is certainly one of the keystones to gain the best quality in difficult situations out of the gear. I certainly understand that not everything is published that is crucial to make the cameras what they are.

However, I think Phil is already doing a lot and with his book now, I hope he is motivated to continue to produce more of those gems.

Furthermore, how about a set of documentary clips from the REDucation, with updates. So many people doing now these "tours" and sell the stuff for download then for an breathtaking price. (I have bought a lot of training so far, ~6,000 tutorials in the last decade). I would instantly buy a good "REDaction-Package" (note: Redaktion is the German word for editorial-office [re--da-ktion], and Aktion = action ).

… and third, I would love if RED would have an option to get ready to teach RED to others. I so would love to do more, perhaps even hands-on training. I have published so far 1,200 tutorials and I just (yesterday) released a new series, with a little bit of RED-6K, more to come.)

 

[PC Greene]

Ditto Gunleik lol. That said, realizing committing to 8k now meant 42k+ commitment next 7 months got me thinking about this model again....

It is a kinda funny idea with some merit. Which I'd have fought against as hard as I can.

 

[James Falco]

Perhaps it's worth a conversation to have upgrade costs be at a fixed ongoing monthly cost so those in business can have a predictable cash flow. Let's say if RED upgrades are an average of $15K per year, then just have an auto-pay of $1250/month. That provides RED a steady funding source for R&D and those who want to participate in having the latest in RED releases get on the program. Those who don't can be happy with buying at the one time bi-annual (every other year) cost of the above example rate of a one time $30K when they feel the need to upgrade.

Shipping order can be done via Silver, Gold and Platinum levels whereby that same $1250 is escalated to $1500 or $2000 to get Second or First in Line Priority. Rental Companies and high budget users who want the newest releases won't have an issue with a higher monthly cost. Those who can wait save money. Just like Air Travel: Coach, Business and First Class

This would completely avoid the trauma that was Scarlet pre-NAB / Weapon NAB Upgrade and move away from the Carbon body material being the method of First Shipment Out upgrade priority.

https://creative.adobe.com/plans

Seems simple . . . am I missing something here?

I think after deeply thinking about your request a second time around, I have a constructive suggestion for you.

Pay monthly $1250 into a savings account. Enjoy free firmware and software upgrades.
You will have plenty of money on your savings account, when the next upgrade is due.

Worse case scenario, if you don't like the upgrade you are stuck with 30-40k.

Not sure how we can work the Business, Platinum and Economy class in the equation.
Thats the part I am still working on. ; )

 

[Elsie N]

No . . . I'm saying that I never accept the status quo or information as presented without questioning the source, agenda, facts and then consider potential for improvement. RED is a consumer product company - not a religion.

NAB Weapon Intro was no business school case study on how to capture the hearts and minds of the skeptics while burying your competition ;-)

BLASPHEMER!!!

And you'd better not draw a cartoon of Jim or Jarred or Brent!

 

[Lee Saxon]

If they were actually able to provide meaningful updates on a regular enough basis that this actually worked out better financially for the customers, it might be worth trying. But neither Adobe nor Autodesk have come close to delivering that since their switch to a subscription model, and it's even more of a challenge for hardware than software, so...

 

[Louis Maddalena]

I'm not going to lie, if there are people out there that would prefer this to buying a camera out right, I'm sure there is an opportunity out there for somebody to create a service like this by leasing cameras and offering upgrades as needed for a low price.

 

[Russ Fill]

Sounds like a car lease program where you never really own your car/camera you just keep shelling out cash month after month regardless if you would have paid it off years ago, and regardless if now the company is just waiting for the new tech or R&D to come out of alpha or beta before releasing. Seems like a way to create a lot of unhappy customers waiting for gear or updates..

I for one like the fact that I bought and paid for my camera and then after the time it was paid for, I still made money with out the thought that I needed to pay some monthly fee just to use the camera after I had paid for it..
Maybe I don't totally understand this program but it seems like the customer loses on this deal.

 

[Will Keir]

Are you on drugs?

Perhaps it's worth a conversation to have upgrade costs be at a fixed ongoing monthly cost so those in business can have a predictable cash flow. Let's say if RED upgrades are an average of $15K per year, then just have an auto-pay of $1250/month. That provides RED a steady funding source for R&D and those who want to participate in having the latest in RED releases get on the program. Those who don't can be happy with buying at the one time bi-annual (every other year) cost of the above example rate of a one time $30K when they feel the need to upgrade.

Shipping order can be done via Silver, Gold and Platinum levels whereby that same $1250 is escalated to $1500 or $2000 to get Second or First in Line Priority. Rental Companies and high budget users who want the newest releases won't have an issue with a higher monthly cost. Those who can wait save money. Just like Air Travel: Coach, Business and First Class

This would completely avoid the trauma that was Scarlet pre-NAB / Weapon NAB Upgrade and move away from the Carbon body material being the method of First Shipment Out upgrade priority.

https://creative.adobe.com/plans

Seems simple . . . am I missing something here?

 

[Zeb B]

Are you on drugs?

Actually, many of the leading minds throughout history have experimented with various drugs to break out of their mundane, present dimension thinking. Read the thread . . . you might learn something or at least be invited to think outside the small box you exist in and then provide some insight to the issue of creative financing for high value, rapidly depreciating technology hardware. Perhaps a trip to your local Shaman could assist you with free association and releasing your mental restraints ;-)

 

[Will Keir]

The Adobe CC model puts creatives in a box, servitued. Perhaps the Shaman gave you the wrong substance, shackling your mind instead of opening it. Limiting your imagination to the restraints of "high value creative financing," and business models. From creator to purchaser, hoping for exponential inner growth from buying things and taking external substances. I see a man before me with the curve of his potential sliding down with technological depreciation. Leave the drugs Josh, find something to ignite your imagination and the limitless possiblities it will bring.

Actually, many of the leading minds throughout history have experimented with various drugs to break out of their mundane, present dimension thinking. Read the thread . . . you might learn something or at least be invited to think outside the small box you exist in and then provide some insight to the issue of creative financing for high value, rapidly depreciating technology hardware. Perhaps a trip to your local Shaman could assist you with free association and releasing your mental restraints ;-)

 

[Elsie N]

RED and SoCal Leasing has already created a program to do what Zeb has suggested. One could theoretically Lease a camera until a new model is offered and pay over time. They even have a RED account manager. Her name is Ashley Reno and her email address is ashleyr@socalleasing.com.