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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Short films should cost $1

I would expect this model would work for educational content. I expect the high-end would benefit up to maybe $25 per film if users can view films in their home while films are in theaters and not have to deal with loud crowds etc. I think the middle market is going to be sadly disappointed.
 
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Samir Patel said:
I would expect this model would work for educational content. I expect the high-end would benefit up to maybe $25 per film if users can view films in their home while films are in theaters and not have to deal with loud crowds etc. I think the middle market is going to be sadly disappointed.
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$25 for a 10 minuet short? I'm talking about short films.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
$25 for a 10 minuet short? I'm talking about short films.
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Sorry I meant in general I think users may be comfortable spending up to $25 for features on odemax. As for shorts I don't think people will pay at all. I think we live in a society these days where everyone expects everything for free. I do suspect an educational user would be more comfortable paying for content. Just this guy's opinion
 
To eat crow here, I have a hard enough time getting people to watch my shorts for free, and I've gotten my content to a point I've bagged several 1st place finishes in some decently tough competitions. Unless there's a celeb in it, I can't imagine people en masse willing to pay $1 for entertainment when there are already too many free ones vying for our time.
 
I watch a lot of shorts online but it's because it's moderated by the likes of vimeo staff picks or they're forwarded to me because theyre good. If there was a rating system so I don't waste my time, I would pay. $10 or 10 shorts of your choice... Bring it!
 
I use the vimeo tip jar if I see a film that I think was great or inspiring. I think people doing kickstarter and charging $20 for a HD download of their short is pretty whack, and I wouldn't pay that. But I think a few bucks for great short film/art/media content is more than fair. So long as people wouldn't start charging for music videos, since that is essentially watching advertising.
 
I like the model if it makes profit for the creators of the shorts.

My favorite online pricing for content would be something like where you pay minimum $1 to view or you can pay more if you wish, as a tip system.
I'm much happier to spend extra $$ willingly if I see something inspiring or entertaining. It makes me feel good as a consumer to support them, and the artist reaps a reward for their quality work.
 
Nope. I really wish they would but unless attitudes change greatly I doubt it will.

I mean do the math. You would need about $100k a year to "make a living" as a freelancer. If the 48 hour film challenge is the absolute pinnacle of efficiency you would need about 96 hours per short (you can't go without sleep all year so you'll work 8 hour instead of 18 hour days). That works out to about a week from start to finish on a not-going-to-burn out schedule. With 48 work weeks in a year about that translates into about $2,000 per week per person. You need at least a 4-person crew. And you need at least 3 actors. We'll say actors only have to work half the time since you have post production and pre-production without them. That means 4*$2,000 + 2*$1,000 = $10,000 per short. Now take into account that most 48 hour shorts are unwatchable crap and you really need about $20,000 for decent production value as your absolute floor. If you can convince 20,000 people to give you a dollar it *could* work. I would suspect though that cranking out 48 shorts a year would all but kill any love you might have once had for film making. And even if 1 in 10 people gave you $1 that would work out to 200,000 views per week. Which is ambitious.

Throw in location releases, software licenses, VFX, costume or anything other than just straight up shooting contemporary USA and it gets even harder.
 
I started looking into this recently but the way I see it you've got to have some killer films to even get noticed in the sea of crap out there. I asked a similar question on the Redray forum, after being approached by Odemax to start up a channel and they tell me they'll give me a few cents every time it gets viewed, really how many people will be watching my films when there are 10,000 other films to chose from? I doubt enough to even pay for a few beers a month unless I had something that had the potential to go viral.
 
I do not think of short films as a direct commercial asset.

I make money from them, but not from the direct views.

I win prices.

They contribute to me getting into new lines of work.

They help me get new projects funded.

But in no way are they a source for pay-per-view source of money, unless of course they are sold to tv-stations etc.

Of course, after spending too much time and money on a project, and when I am broke, I start to calculate the productions "real value".

But to me that is essentially a dead end which does not lead to anything else than that I eventually would not do them... ;)

Still, managing to do them, has lead to a lot of good things.

Shorts are also good to test out concepts without the high risk of a feature.

And a way to sharpen up your skills without selling the house.

And a great way to learn to know a lot of new people and find out who you really wanna work with or not.

Shorts have great value.

1$ a shot is kinda just insulting, and won´t make my money back.

100k viewers on festivals, prizemoney and new opportunities rising from that, might.

And then eventually to release them for the public as part of your CV through Vimeo/Odemax/Whatever.

The main point of a short, is to get it out and find audiences.


Just my 1$...

G
 
It would have to be a "new normal" to pay to see a short film. If everyone does it, then there is a better chance the audience will accept paying for it. Honestly, I would pay for $1.50 for every short I watch to help out but most are not set up for payment or even donation.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
If people got used to paying $1 on Vimeo Odemax etc for a good short (10 minutes, more) it would actually be a viable business model for prod. Agree?
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I'm not being facetious here, but I think the only way to get people to pay $1 for a 10 minute short is to have some amount of soft porn in it. Hard porn... $5, maybe 10.


Celebrity Porn... $25
 
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Depending on how sophisticated the backend of Odemax is, the logical step would be to offer administered/catergorised subscription based channels. I would certainly pay a couple of hundred bucks annually to have access to say a REDUSER SHORT FILM channel, the backend would need to be able to workout the split to all contributors to the channel based upon viewings. I just hope there's some sort of structure to Odemax and it doesn't end up being a 4K youtube.
 
Mark, every filmmaker gets their own channel, for a one time set up fee and then monthly fee per film they store on there. From what I can tell the films are broken out by genre as well as listed in certain channels (like Shot on Red film festival channel for example). The set up fee is enough to weed out the bad films but still, anyone can essentially get a film on there. So yeah, we could be looking at something similar to a 4K Youtube service albeit with less but more professional content.

What I'm more interested to know is what size is the audience going to be here? Are we talking hundreds, thousands or millions of Odemax viewers?
 
Bottom line, I would not pay to watch a short film. Not even $1. That's sad but in all honesty I just wouldn't and I don't know any of my friends that would either. Short films have always been promotion only. Its not because there isn't a few gems that aren't worth $1. Its because there is no marketing around the filmmakers and cast to make anyone care enough to watch and pay beyond maybe your inner circle / network which on the individual level is tiny compared to what you need to make it pay for itself and profit. This business model has been explored for a long time now and everyone who has tried to make a living at it...well, i don't even have one example of a single individual success story that found a way to make short films forever and make them financially sustainable. Which is why they are for promotional use only.
 
mikeburton said:
Bottom line, I would not pay to watch a short film. Not even $1. That's sad but in all honesty I just wouldn't and I don't know any of my friends that would either. Short films have always been promotion only. Its not because there isn't a few gems that aren't worth $1. Its because there is no marketing around the filmmakers and cast to make anyone care enough to watch and pay beyond maybe your inner circle / network which on the individual level is tiny compared to what you need to make it pay for itself and profit. This business model has been explored for a long time now and everyone who has tried to make a living at it...well, i don't even have one example of a single individual success story that found a way to make short films forever and make them financially sustainable. Which is why they are for promotional use only.
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This is why I feel the model of selling shorts will only work online. But also only if you have built a following through your blog readers etc before you publish a short. If blog readers have followed your progress for many months I think they would be more inclined to pay for a vimeo type one off purchase.
 
I've made and seen countless shorts. People just won't pay for 'em. Its an under appreciated, outside the norm art form. I've even found myself sitting alone in a shorts showing at festivals, very depressing.

You can get an episode of a tv show on iTunes for like $1.99 if I'm not mistaken. That's an hour of primetime drama with a massive budget, known stars and serious production value. How would even the best 10 minute film compete with that? If you think about Netflix, it gets even more abysmal. $8.99 and you can watch 720 hours a month of older TV shows. That's like 1¢ per hour of programming. That actually looks retarded once I see it on screen but it is true.

I'd like to think quality matters, and it does, but the general public won't know about your short and thus will have a hard time shelling out anything to watch it.

When imagining a delivery / payment schema for shorts, or any business idea, picture yourself describing it to a loan officer at a bank. The success of your plan depends on this loan officer giving you the moolah. It would take a smooth operator.

I think the tip jars are the best. People who truly enjoy can tip if they like. Pay walls leave potential customers out as they won't pay without knowing the wares are worth it. Sadly, at no point will anyone be making a living from short films.

...But never stop making them :)
 
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